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Re: Unresponsive Vendor
From: Matt Burnett <marukka () mac com>
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:39:40 -0600

 True I don¹t have much of a track record, my of my exp has been with
systems intergration/management, network management, 1 security audit, and
programming (consoleconductor.com). I would consider interning but I don¹t
have money to pay next months rent, let alone the cost to move to wherever
those companies are located.

On 11/20/03 4:21 PM, "Peter Schawacker" <peter () schawacker com> wrote:


This matter might be a better candidate for securityfocus-jobs than
securit-basics.  To reiterate when I think you'r saying you want to work for
a company that needs professional bug hunters but you lack a documented
track record.  Maybe you could "intern" with the sort of company that the
"Unresponsive Vendor"-types would listen to -- like and Bindview, ISS or
Symantec.  The next time you find a juicy bug, make a partner of one of
those companies.  All you have to do is find out who's in charge of the
security vendor's vulnerability research group, which shouldn't take more
than a call to the company's tech support line.  Come to think of it, if you
post a message to vuln-dev or full disclosure saying that you have a bug to
report but that you need a partner with muscle to help with it for FREE,
you'll get the right folks to respond.  The deal is simple.  XYZ security
gets first crack at your discovery and in turn they give you credit as a
partner.  If you play your cards right maybe XYZ pays you, money or beer or
something.  Your findings are valuable to somebody.  I think you know who
those somebody's are.  There are even companies that pay cash for bugs,
aren't there?...

Good posts.  Best of luck.


Peter Schawacker, CISSP
peter () schawacker com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Burnett" <marukka () mac com>
To: <c_brauckmiller () LEK COM>
Cc: <security-basics () securityfocus com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Unresponsive Vendor

Im sorry if you feel that I am being immature, the main reason I would like
credit would be to add it to my resume. I haven't worked in 4.5 months and I
could use all the help I can get. Potential employers ive talked to seem to
like stuff like this. Also I was irked by it because, for other security
flaws they have given the notifier credit. If they never gave anyone credit
I could understand that, but giving credit to people from well known orgs
and not giving credit to just some guy (like me) doesn¹t make much sense.

For the person who gave the broken window analogy. I normally wouldn¹t care
if it was just some random piece of software. However I use this software on
a daily basis. And when I do get another job im sure im going to have to
support it there and worry about the security flaw.

On 11/20/03 11:00 AM, "c_brauckmiller () LEK COM" <c_brauckmiller () LEK COM>

I have a couple of comments on this.

First, and please don't take this the wrong way, let me state that I think
its a bit imature to complain about not getting credit for discovering a
bug/vuln in a software package.  I understand that you'd like credit for
discovery, but I think your better served just releasing the fact that you
discovered it to the appropriate groups such as BugTraq.  That should be
enough.  I wouldn't count on many vendors patting you on the back publicly
saying "Yeah we screwed up and this guy found it."

Having said that, if you haven't heard from the vendor in a month with
even a
status update...I say screw'em...release the exploit.  If they don't have
common courtesy to let you know, "Hey..we are working on it." then they
a very good company to begin with and they should be shown that the
community won't stand for it.  After they get nailed a couple times,
they will reconsider their methods.

My 2 cents worth.


Matt Burnett <marukka () mac com> on 11/19/2003 02:02:57 PM

To:   security-basics () securityfocus com
cc:    (bcc: Craig Brauckmiller/LEK)

Subject:  Unresponsive Vendor

I have a moral question for all of you. I have notified a major software
company in the past about security issues with their software. I did email
them with enough details to replicate the issue. However they never
responded to my email, and a couple years later they fixed the issue and
not give credit were due. I'm sure other researchers contacted them with a
similar but different way to exploit the flaw, but no one at all is given
credit. Now I have a local d0s for their product and have contacted them
again, this time via phone. After notifying them they gave me a case
and said a engineer would be in contact with me in approximately a week.
guessing that something similar will happen and this issue wont get fixed
for a while, and once again I wont get credit. I'm just wondering what
be a fair time frame before releasing a exploit, and what I could/should
about receiving credit. I have looked at some papers online about when you
should release a exploit but none i've read yet give any guidance on what
you should do if the vendor is dragging their feet.





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