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RE: Re: RE: ADS Password Storage Protection
From: "Michael Yelland" <myelland () brotherhoodbank com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:01:53 -0500



-----Original Message-----
From: dave kleiman [mailto:dave () davekleiman com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:35 PM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Re: RE: ADS Password Storage Protection

     ""Actually, a passphrase is not as secure as a random password. "" 
How did I misrepresent that?
 
     ""Using compound dictionary words could come back to bite you very
quickly, even when used in long phrases."" 
I do not think so... Please demonstrate or give us some detailed
research
results.


     ""What I am saying is that if I had the hash extraction from 
     your system, I'd be able to enter your system in a matter 
     of seconds regardless of your 60, 90, 
     200-and-whatever-character passphrase.""

You said that in your previous post?? I did not see it please point that
out. And how would you accomplish this? Please enlighten us with actual
facts rather than mere opinion.

""Mathematically your passphrase is stronger.  In applied 
    security, my opinion is that a passphrase really isn't necessary."

And your opinion is based on what?


Dave






    -----Original Message-----
    From: Baechle, Eric [mailto:Eric.Baechle () dhs gov] 
    Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:44
    To: security-basics () securityfocus com
    Cc: dave kleiman
    Subject: RE: Re: RE: ADS Password Storage Protection
    
    Dave,
    
    No I'm suggesting no such thing.  You would be 
    misrepresenting my post.
    
    What I am saying is that if I had the hash extraction from 
    your system, I'd be able to enter your system in a matter 
    of seconds regardless of your 60, 90, 
    200-and-whatever-character passphrase.
    
    Mathematically your passphrase is stronger.  In applied 
    security, my opinion is that a passphrase really isn't necessary.
    
    
    I appreciate those of you who take the time to write your 
    research, findings and recommendations.  I would appreciate 
    a discussion on the merit of fact rather than credential 
    waving.  Someone once published that the Earth was the 
    center of the universe, that the world was flat, the moon 
    was made of cheese, and that no computer could ever process 
    fast enough to find a collision in SHA...
    
    
    
    Sincerely,
    
    Eric Baechle, CISSP/ISSEP, etc.
    Senior INFOSEC/OPSEC Engineer
    Department of Homeland Security
    
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: dave kleiman [mailto:dave () davekleiman com]
    Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:14 PM
    To: security-basics () securityfocus com
    Subject: RE: Re: RE: ADS Password Storage Protection
    
    
    Eric,
    
    I beg to differ.
    
    Are you suggesting that a 40-60 character passphrase "&Old 
    King Cole was a merry old soul, a merry old soul was he; he 
    called for his pipe, he called for his bowl!!" is not more 
    secure than "$%Op13f987&"
    
    First the above passphrase will never have and LM hash 
    store, the random password will.
    Second the above passphrase will not, at anytime in the 
    near future, be susceptible to rainbow tables.
    Third put that on L0pht or Cain and maybe our 
    great-grandkids can use it in their science report to do a 
    contrast and comparison essay on the cracking speed between 
    now and when that is done.
    
    
    Ok well, maybe I am just being biased because of:
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=br_ss_hs/104-2573870-0538346?pla
tform=gurupa&url
    =index%3Dblended&keywords=perfect+passwords&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
    
    However, I have my money on the passphrase.
    
    
    
    Respectfully,
    
    ______________________________________________________
    Dave Kleiman, CAS,CCE,CIFI,CISM,CISSP,ISSAP,ISSMP,MCSE
    
    http://www.davekleiman.com/about.php 
    
    
        
    


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The NSA has designated Norwich University a center of Academic Excellence
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