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RE: ADS Password Storage Protection
From: "dave kleiman" <dave () davekleiman com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:17:19 -0400


You response is a no go, maybe you are unaware of how the LM store works.

"garzelfloposaurus" there would be no LM hash of this password nor of my old
king passphrase example, because LM is limited to 14 characters.

That is where you are mixing up the getting the first half and guessing the

If you did have the first, how would you guess what portion of the rhyme I
used, what punctuation I used, and how long the passphrase was?


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jeffrey F. Bloss [mailto:jbloss () tampabay rr com] 
    Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 14:51
    To: security-basics () securityfocus com
    Subject: Re: ADS Password Storage Protection
    dave kleiman wrote:
    > Eric,
    > I beg to differ.
    > Are you suggesting that a 40-60 character passphrase 
    "&Old King Cole 
    > was a merry old soul, a merry old soul was he; he called 
    for his pipe, 
    > he called for his bowl!!" is not more secure than "$%Op13f987&"
    In some ways yes, and in some ways no. :)
    The essence of the LM Hash vulnerability is being able to 
    derive an entire pass phrase from a portion. Since pass 
    phrases were hashed in "chunks" it was possible to crack a 
    smaller chunk and potentially guess the rest from that 
    information. If you discovered the text "garzel" and knew a 
    pet's name was "garzelfloposaurus"... :)
    Your Old King Cole example suffers from the same weakness. 
    It wouldn't take long to figure out the rest if we knew the 
    "&Old Ki" part. And of course "&Old Ki" is less secure than 
    "$%Op13f987&" in every way.
    Hand crafted on 19 July, 2006 at 14:41:28 EDT
    Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

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