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RE: death of the security community
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:06:41 +1100

Well, not so much that they do not want to be secure, but rather that we
as human's in general do not comprehend and respond to risk in a logical
manner. People (generalised) are afraid to fly, but they get in a car
after a few drinks.

The threats people perceive are tainted by their experiences. People do
not look at life quantitatively. They do not assess the true level of
threat and impact.

So it is not that people do not want to be insecure, they rather fail to
understand that they are insecure. The levels of FUD have created a
situation where security professionals are seen to being crying wolf.


-----Original Message-----
From: Hat Trick [mailto:hattrickinc () gmail com]
Sent: 23 March 2006 12:59
To: Craig Wright
Cc: Bob Radvanovsky; John Vill; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: death of the security community

You know what I think it is, I think it's because no one really wants to
be secure anymore, because they won't be able to play their 'yahoo
games' correctly. I've gone into small company's and told them how they
need to be secure, and mentioned to cut out all this garbage downloading
that I know is full of spyware and just waiting to fill the rest of the
hd with crap, and they just brush it off because 'it won't happen to
them, it never has'
..just my opinion

On 3/21/06, Craig Wright <cwright () bdosyd com au> wrote:

And the links now that I have looked are:


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Wright
Sent: 22 March 2006 8:00
To: 'Bob Radvanovsky'; John Vill; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: death of the security community

Answer time...
"Is there such a thing as a 'script kiddie security analyst'?"
Yes, the term script kiddie was formulated over a decade ago by Marcus

Ranum to describe the "Big 6" (at the time - Big 4 now) "security
consultants" how where doing scripted tests. A junior staff member
would do the work from a form created by the manager and hence

As bob put it - Google away - there is more than enough proof. I
believe it was also in the Blackhat 2000 keynote from Marcus. I am
sure that Marcus will have this on his site. This would be the "Script

Kiddies Suck" talk.

Re. "security assessment". The issue is with the wording. All
professional audit firms are covered in law at least in the "West"
(and I will not speak for more than the G8 and Australia) when the
wording of Audit is used.

It is true that the contract will worm around this. It will be an
"assessment", a "review" or a "agreed procedures process" etc. If you
want to have a real test, than it has to be wording using the correct
legal terms. Even than many times the work will be inadequate, but at
least there are consequences if the word audit is used. There is
liability for the audit firm if you can demonstrate a lack of due care

(i.e. scripted tests).

The test is are they willing to give an audit certificate? What is
contained in the audit certificate? Are they just stating BS or are
they stating they have tested the systems and controls?

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