mailing list archives
Re: application for an employment
From: Kurt Reimer <greimer () fccc edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:48:10 -0500 (EST)
The list of addressees atop these messages seems to be getting
bigger and bigger, so I'm confining my reply to just the mailing list.
The course of this thread illustrates that the use of analogies
can't reliably prove a proposition to be right or wrong, but they can
serve to illustrate different aspects of and viewpoints towards a new
and interesting situation. Then we can call them good or bad analogies,
but I think that says more about our pre-existing opinions about the
situation than it does about anything else.
Having said that, as I read the continuing replies to this
thread I can't help but feel that I was being way too optimistic when I
wrote before of my upset with attitudes towards Electronic Security born
of fear and paranoia that were BECOMING codified into professional,
ethical, and even legal standards. It seems like I'm much too late! Not
only are the standards set, but we're already trying and convicting based
I take Mathias' description of his situation to be true and not
intentionally misleading. And the plain fact is that he had no ill
intentions toward his prospective employer or anyone else, and everything
that he did was motivated by mothing other than an eager desire to impress
and please the organization that he hopes will hire him.
When I read that his behavior is suspect under "the Ethics clauses in
any of the IT Security Professional's organizations" or that "we all know
that most, if not all, AUP's (Acceptable Use Policies?) ban this activity"
then, well, I don't reject that out of hand, but when I see them make a
pariah (if not an actual criminal) out of an innocent job applicant I have
to wonder if they are fair and reasonable policies. Certainly they are
advantageous for and serve the interests of large organizations (and the
Security Professionals who are employed by them). It's not clear to me
that they are as advantageous or even fair towards the individual user of
the Internet or towards the rest of society in general.
The Internet is something new under the sun, and the mores of
Internet Society are even newer. For that reason alone I'd feel sort of
presumptuous in making up some rules and then condemning people according
to them. Maybe the rules need to be in flux for awhile longer. Certainly
when you consider how tiny a portion of the present Internet Community has
forged these rules, and how much more of humanity will be accessing the
Internet for the first time in the coming years and decades, doesn't
somebody besides me see a little pomposity going on here?
And try as I might, I just can't within my mind equate running a port
scan with walking onto somebody's property and trying their door and
window locks. Maybe because it is so easy to do, as easy as typing a URL
in your browser and looking at the output, just like turning your eyes in
a particular direction. Maybe it's because everyone on the Internet has
chosen to make themselves available to everyone else on a shared and
commonly-paid-for public medium, and the Internet as a whole is much more
like a great big village public square than it is like people's private
property. Maybe it's because just about every personal datum that I
generate on the Internet, every purchase I make, every website I visit,
every email I send, is for available for use or sale by someone (if we
include the government) to all sorts of other people with no percentage
returned to me, thank you very much.
When all our AUP's and Ethical Standards take no pains to make any
explicit distinction between someone who runs a port scan and some who
runs a port scan and then exploits a discovered vulnerability, I'd say
that those policies are kind of biased. Maybe a healthier attitude would
be to regard a large organization with an insecure Internet presence
rather like the way we would regard an individual walking down the street
with no pants on?
And here's an observation that's got to be from some strange and
bizarre alternate universe where individuals and deep-pocketed
corporations with large legal teams are treated equally in the Electronic
Village: Mathias did not randomly choose an organization upon which to
run his nefarious portscans. The university that he scanned was SOLICITING
APPLICATIONS FOR EMPLOYMENT. (Now remember, this is the bizarre alternate
universe, where we do not automatically kowtow in abject gratitude,
kissing the feet (and whatever other anatomy is shoved in our faces) of
those who would grace us with the privlege of toiling for them. In this
bizarre alternate universe the flesh-and-blood citizen dares to consider
whether or not the *EMPLOYER* is *WORTHY* (gasp) of HIM!). To quote
another participant in this thread: "It has been my personal experience,
having audited a University for license compliance alone, that internal
politics often prevents best practices from being implemented,..".
Maybe, just maybe, Mathias has a RIGHT to an informed decision about
whether or not he wants to tie his fortunes, his career, his professional
development, and the next several years of his life (at least) to this
particular organization. Maybe he has a right to know if he's walking into
some political morass, and maybe he has a right to data that will help him
make that determination.
Or maybe he doesn't. But it's certainly true that the University has
the right to examine below the surface of lots of information that Mathias
will offer. And if they don't have the right, well then they'll just offer
you a paper to sign giving them the right to examine your police record,
credit history, your urine, and lord knows what else, and of course you
don't HAVE to sign it, and thanks for your time there's plenty of other
applicants for the job.
In this country the corporate citizen with limited liability was
invented during the 19th century. It took several decades before society
would admit to itself that they'd created an entity which could work poor
people literally to death, and that maybe some regulatory statutes were a
My sense is that the evolving mores, ethics, and coming along behind
them the laws, in the Electronic Village (and there is only one) are so
far much better for the big folks than the little guys.
PS - I wrote most of this in the evenings.
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- Re: application for an employment, (continued)