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RE: application for an employment
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:07:34 +1100

Assuming again that all points are public. An Internet connected host
may not be public. An example of this world include a VPN server or a
OWA system even. These could be on a separate non-private VPN making
them private and not public. How do you know what is "public" and what
is "private". Further if private and public services are on the same
host but using differently ports you may just be asking for trouble.

Still it is a little risky for me. I have do a lot of valid tests where
taking all precautions a system had rebooted. Criminally charged because
of an accident is not a case I would like to be in. Being that the
action is going to be held as negligent than you are still likely to be
found guilty if damage was proved from the outage (a fair possibility
dependant on the system).

Again, A simple SYN scan is not likely to get you into trouble - but why
take the risk. A Nessus scan does far more than this and checking
vulnerabilities requires that a connection is made in most instances.

At the end of the day much of this will depend on the ability of the
lawyers on each side and if the prosecutor has a point to make.

From a point of hiring the person, the risk is above the limit I would
accept and this means that they would not have a hope of getting my

Being that I work for a professional services firm (Chartered), the acts
and standards that apply to the profession would not allow this type of
action, so how could we take a risk to the firm (different to a Uni of
course) that the prospect would amend his/her ways?


-----Original Message-----
From: Soderland, Craig [mailto:craig.soderland () sap com]
Sent: 28 March 2006 9:54
To: Craig Wright
Subject: RE: application for an employment


        All valid points. But, One point to contend with is that, if he
is crossing the public network to conduct a port scan on the public
segment, then in effect he is not crossing private property.

        this would be analogous to you walking down the street and
knocking on the doors to shops. If I know and see that the door is open
when I believe it should be closed, there can be no trespass as I have
of yet not crossed into the private arena.

        This would be analogous to scanning a public web site and seeing
that the server was listening on 135/139 TCP. Unless the server Reboots,
there is no harm, and since it is a public facing system, there can be
no trespass, unless I attempt to establish a connection. If I do a Syn
scan there is no possible chance of a connection, only a confirmation of
what the server is listening to and responding on.

        At this point I believe a prosecutor would be hard pressed to
prove trespass, and providing a reboot did not occur at this time prove
harm. Though like you said companies like Sony who have deep pockets may
not try to throw money at the situation to prove otherwise.


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