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RE: pen test
From: "Worrell, Brian" <BWorrell () isdh IN gov>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:35:53 -0500

All,
 
I am sorry but seems that maybe not all my message was read.  Stated below "If you were to ask you web host in writing 
before doing it, that should solve the possible "legality" issue that it sounds like you talking about."
 

 

As for the PCI-DSS, you can be fined huge ammounts if you do not comply.  HIPAA is the same way.  HIPAA required Audits 
and Risk Assessments. If you are working with a thrid party, and you are required to abide by something like those, 
then yes, it should be in your contrat.  Marty below is asking due to a Firms major security incedent.  In that case, I 
stand by my Ask in writting first, before doing it.

If you wrote the code that is hosted there, or the back in database, you CAN scan it for issues, without asking the 
host though, granted it should be done before being uploaded to the server. But I think that is a seperate topic, and 
not what Marty was asking.

 

Thanks

Brian




________________________________

From: listbounce () securityfocus com on behalf of Craig Wright
Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 4:27 PM
To: Worrell, Brian; mike () security-bounce com; Marty Resnick; listbounce () securityfocus com; security-basics
Subject: RE: pen test



Brian,

None of these requirements matters. If you have not added a right to audit clause to the contract, you can not run the 
test.

If you have not included this and are subject to PCI-DSS (contractual) or FISMA, HIPPA, GLBA requirements 
(Legislative), then you have a problem. You can approach the hosting firm and negotiate the addition of a right to 
audit clause. If they do not accept and do not wish to allow this, then you can breach the contract and pay penalties 
and move to another hosting firm (remembering this time to contract this effectively).

These are your options. Scanning without authority is not only a breach of contract against the hosting firm, but also 
a criminal felony.

If you need to audit this hoisting firm and there is nothing in the contract, then you stand to lose money.

People forget that though you can contract another to assume some of your risk, you can not outsource the 
responsibility.

Regards,

Dr Craig Wright (GSE-Compliance)

http://gse-compliance.blogspot.com/ <http://gse-compliance.blogspot.com/> 




Craig Wright
Manager of Information Systems

Direct : +61 2 9286 5497
Craig.Wright () bdo com au
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BDO Kendalls (NSW)
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________________________________


From: listbounce () securityfocus com on behalf of Worrell, Brian
Sent: Tue 11/12/2007 11:13 PM
To: mike () security-bounce com; Marty Resnick; listbounce () securityfocus com; security-basics
Subject: RE: pen test



Michael,

Am I wrong, but there are lots of practices and in some cases laws that
say that you need to run  vulnerability assessments to be compliant.
If you were to ask you web host in writing before doing it, that should
solve the possible "legality" issue that it sounds like you talking
about.

As far as I know, White Hat hacking has never been illegal, if done
correctly and above board.  If it was, why would SANS and other offer
Certified Hacker classes and certs?

Thanks
Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On Behalf Of Michael R. Martinez
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:54 PM
To: Marty Resnick; listbounce () securityfocus com; security-basics
Subject: Re: pen test

Marty,

absolutely not, this is called hacking. Pen testing is actively
exploiting a server, identifying a weakness exploiting gaining access.
Are you talking about scanning ports? Could you provide a little more
detail. If you mean pen-testing, then the answer is no.

Cheers
------Original Message------
From: Marty Resnick
Sender: listbounce () securityfocus com
To: security-basics
Sent: Dec 10, 2007 9:35 AM
Subject: pen test

Am I able to pen test or run a vulnerability assessment on my web
hosting company. I got the idea after reading this article.
http://www.securitypark.co.uk/Security_article.asp?articleid=260173

--
Marty Resnick
Techmaking Inc.
(877) 291-1110 (office)
(661) 209-2089 (mobile)
(805) 512-9603 (fax)
marty () techmaking com



Michael R. Martinez
TF: 800-987-7307



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