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Re: [Full-disclosure] Apache suEXEC privilege elevation / information disclosure
From: coderaptor <coderaptor () gmail com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:39:53 -0700

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl () thelounge net> wrote:

Am 12.08.2013 19:28, schrieb Coderaptor:
I have been a silent spectator to this drama, and could not resist adding a few thoughts of my own:
All software, especially webservers, should ship with secure defaults

yes, but define secure defaults without a context
hint: you can't

Oh, a practical context can very well be established. We aren't
talking about formal methods are we?

It is a fundamental mistake to assume all admins who roll out web apps and
maintain servers RTFM before rolling out

it is a fundamental mistake not doing so and be admin

Agree. However, the vast amount of data shows otherwise. Its easy to
have reasonable secure defaults than expect knowledgeable admins, IMO.

2. Apache clearly does not ship with secure defaults in favor of convenience?
disable_functions is a example

disable_functions has *nothing* to do with Apache because it is a php option
apache itself *does not* create symlinks at all

My bad. PHP it is. Well, PHP design is broken then.

do you expect an admin to be a unix expert or know what each parameter in there means?

*yes* *yes* and *yes* again

*cough* *cough*. Ideally, yes. Practically, no.

Why not enable_functions instead, with everything disabled to begin with?
(Oh, that wouldn't help you achieve world dominance and fast!)

another example that people with no clue make proposals

there you go: http://www.php.net/manual/en/funcref.php
come on, list all functions except the one i listed

*Again*: Apache does not create any symlink
Apache does only *follow*

so what should suExec do for you if you are refuse to understand what
the different software-layers are supposed to do and why different
layers exist at all and finally how to manage all of them?

so disable follow symlinks in Apache or disable potential dangerous functions
in scripting languages - and since Apache can not control any low level
function a scripting language is using and symlinks are not the only
dangerous thing you should do *both* or not play admin

this thread is a good example that lazy admins are dreaming about rollout a
powerful *and* secure service with default configurations and this naive
attitude is only possible by beeing completly clueless, if one would
understand the underlying tech he would no longer dream of flying horses

That's a sad fact. And it is compounded by poorly written framework,
and software. I am depressed, we are doomed. Now, where is my coffee?


On Aug 11, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl () thelounge net> wrote:
Am 11.08.2013 23:56, schrieb Stefan Kanthak:
"Reindl Harald" <h.reindl () thelounge net> wrote:
symlinks are to not poision always and everywhere
they become where untrusted customer code is running
blame the admin which doe snot know his job and not
the language offering a lot of functions where some
can be misused

Again: symlinks are well-known as attack vector for years!

and that's why any admin which is not clueless
disables the symlink function - but there exists
code which *is* secure, runs in a crontrolled
environment and make use of it for good reasons

It's not the user/administrator who develops or ships insecure code!

but it's the administrator which has the wrong job if
create symlinks is possible from any random script
running on his servers

anyways, i am done with this thread

the topic is *not* "Apache suEXEC privilege elevation" it
is "admins not secure their servers" - period

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