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Re: The Neutron Star
From: Adam Crosby <adam () uptill3 com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:24:01 -0400

To suggest its impossible seems to fly in the face of what has happened (see NSA and Boeing/Airbus).

I'm not saying its anything like the Chinese deal, but the NSA is involved in US companies economic health.


On Jun 26, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Dave Aitel <dave () immunityinc com> wrote:


Normally I don't like to stick my toe in the neutron star's gravity well that is the NSA-Snowden discussion. But it's 
important to point out that there are developing standards of behavior being negotiated not between China and the US, 
but between corporations and governments as a whole.

Chinese media has been going on for a week about how the Snowden PRISM revelations about the US hacking China are in 
some way equitable to the US complaints about Chinese government sponsored hacking for the purposes of economic 
espionage. This is pure public relations nonsense. The complaints US industry has about Chinese state sponsored 
hacking is not that it is occurring, but that the fruits of the hacking are being given directly to Chinese companies 
which compete with US (or European, or Korean, etc.) companies. 

It is impossible as a US company to go to the NSA and say "Hey, my competitor in China makes a pretty nice bulldozer, 
can I have the plans to that? Also it'd be nice to know what their bid is on that contract in Malaysia we both want 
to win."  

It's just that simple. Company's hate being forced to give information to their governments, or trojan their 
networking equipment (in the case of Huawei and ZTE). It's bad for business. Especially when you get caught or it 
gets leaked (which it ALWAYS does one way or the other).

But they hate state-sponsored economic espionage more and I hardly think Chinese companies would enjoy a change in 
Washington's tune that allowed US companies to employ the full power of the NSA against them.


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