Firewall Wizards: RE: Inappropriate TCP Resets Considered Harmful

[Ben Nagy <ben.nagy () marconi com au>]

[Crispin]
> <an asside>
> I have been following this thread with great interest, as 
> this cuts to the
> core of a common scheme of firewall configurations.
>
> One family of opinion states that the firewall should provide 
> an absolute
> minimum of information regarding its configuration and state.
Being able to have your firewall fingerprinted is probably not optimal, but
not an overriding concern, IMO. Going too far down that path leads to
"Security by Obscurity" sophistry.

[...]
> From a security point of view, I believe that it is perfectly 
> valid for a
> firewall to deny or reject any traffic that is not 
> _PRE-APPROVED_. i.e. if
> the firewall receives ECN traffic, and the organisation has 
> not said "We
> want to allow ECN", then the firewall administrator would be 
> negligent if
> this traffic was not dropped.
I agree. This seems to be a common opinion among firewall people. That would
tend to lead me to assume that the only reason that ECN works for such a
large percentage of hosts is because many firewalls so not adequately
enforce RFC compliance in the TCP stream, not because the administrators
have taken a lenient security stance.

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Nagy [mailto:ben.nagy () marconi com au]
> > Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 9:43 AM
> > To: 'Darren Reed'
> >
> > Why is a retry bad? If I were writing firewall (heaven 
> > forbid!) I'd treat
> > ECN packets either by silently discarding them or by sending 
> > an ICMP error.
> This is one area in which I disagree. One network scanning 
> option is to send
> a packet with the high-bit tcp flags set.
You mean IP Options, right?

> How can I tell if 
> this packet is
> ECN or scanning?
You can't. 

Oh wait, that question was rhetorical, right? 8)

[...]

[Crispin votes for TCP RST as a response to ECN-TCP packets]
> (Mind you, the argument changes when talking non-TCP :-)
OK - what's your pick for non-TCP? That's going to be relevant, as well, and
variation in the handling of ECN for other IP protocols is almost certainly
going to lead to fingerprinting heaven.

> Regards,
>       Crispin Harris
>       DeMorgan Information Security Specialists
Cheers,

--
Ben Nagy
Network Security Specialist
Marconi Services Australia Pty Ltd
Mb: +61 414 411 520  PGP Key ID: 0x1A86E30
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