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Re: IPS vs. Firewalls
From: Julian M D <julianmd () gmail com>
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:31:43 -0500

This worked for me:
1 - Sarbanes-Oxley - Management suddenly becomes attentive at this word
2 - Honeypot protected by IPS
3 - White Hacking/Probing "consultants" for the IPS honeypot.

It is called the cost opportunity. How much are you willing to spend
(considered as a loss) to gain (protect) assets (value).

If you cannot convince management to go the way you want and feel
confortable with, my suggestion is to change the company because it's
going to bite you in the back-firewall :-) at the end!

My2PlasticCents

Julian


On 2/2/06, Mark Teicher <mht3 () earthlink net> wrote:
Phil Albacore wrote:
They've heard that IPS sensors can be used to block traffic, so they've got it in their heads that we don't need a 
firewall anymore.


I would suggest http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/papers/a1-firewall/index.html if you would like to 
save money in your IT Network Security Budget on IPS/IDS Budget line item and Firewall Budget line item.


-----Original Message-----
From: "Marcus J. Ranum" <mjr () ranum com>
Sent: Feb 2, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Phil Albacore <phila () msgsPostini01 kvh co jp>, firewall-wizards () honor icsalabs com
Subject: Re: [fw-wiz] IPS vs. Firewalls

Phil Albacore wrote:
They've heard that IPS sensors can be used to block traffic, so they've got it in their heads that we don't need a 
firewall anymore.

I'd suggest you have them ask a few of the IPS vendors if they recommend
using their product in that manner. Unless you're talking to the IPS vendors
that are basically selling a firewall+signatures (like a "deep packet inspection"
firewall) they will backpedal away from that very rapidly. Perhaps your
path of least resistance is to tell them that you want one of the new
generation "IPS firewalls" then you can turn off the IPS crap (which
won't do anything except slow the firewall down, anyhow) and use the
firewall rules. The only problem with that is that most of the IPS firewalls
are little more than a cheesy "stateful" packet filter with a few dozen
signatures hammered into the packet forwarder loop. I'd be being
uncharacteristically generous if I said that they "suck" - they're not
nearly that good.

I've got to thank you for asking the question; it made me look at a few of
the IPS vendor claims to see if many of them have the guts to say they
replace a firewall. I particularly got a chuckle out of Intruvert's (now NAI)
claim that they protect against encrypted attacks. I needed some yuks
to lighten up my morning!!

I quote: " McAfee IntruShield delivers comprehensive protection against
today's constantly evolving threats, including known, zero-day, and
encrypted attacks."
Wow -- that does sound pretty good. I guess you don't need a firewall
after all!!

mjr.

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