IDS: RE: DDOS Bot Blacklist

["Andy Cuff" <lists () securitywizardry com>]

Hi Rob,
Thank you for your response
For the larger more complex attacks you are right, though many end networks
(non-ISP) can withstand a surprisingly high volume of attack either through
their Attack Mitigation Systems (upstream of the firewall) or Increasing the
size of their pipe, ideally both.  I'm going to revisit my list of Attack
Mitigation Systems and Network Intrusion Prevention Systems next week.  It's
all related to the project I'm working on, but I didn't want to spam the
list with a barrage of emails simultaneously.

   Regards
   -andy cuff
The Talisker Network Security Portal
http://securitywizardry.com 
Computer Network Defence Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Shein [mailto:shoten () starpower net] 
Sent: 15 November 2004 05:37
To: 'Andy Cuff'; focus-ids () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: DDOS Bot Blacklist

The further question that comes to my mind is who would enforce blocking
based on this list?  It seems to me that if the subscribers to the list were
anything other than ISPs, there would be little point to it.  By the time
you're blocking at your firewall, the DDoS traffic has already consumed what
bandwidth it was meant to consume.  And this is, of course, in addition to
your concerns about DHCP addressing and spoofed source addresses.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Cuff [mailto:lists () securitywizardry com] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 5:27 PM
> To: focus-ids () securityfocus com
> Subject: DDOS Bot Blacklist
>
>
> Hi,
> I was wondering if anyone had looked into the creation of a 
> blacklist for DDOS bots?  
> There are obvious concerns; firstly, where the source may be 
> spoofed, though most of the Attack Mitigation Systems should 
> deal with stateless attacks and secondly, with so many of the 
> bots originating from DHCP scopes, many bots this could be 
> overcome by rapid aging of the addresses or only including 
> addresses used more than once indicating a long term address 
> lease in the scope.  
>
>    Regards
>    -andy cuff
> The Talisker Network Security Portal http://securitywizardry.com 
> Computer Network Defence Ltd
>
>
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