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Re: Microsoft laxed security is threat to internet
From: "Sleem" <sleem () ihcteam org>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:44:07 -0000 (WET)

  Well, you said too many things at the same time about Full Disclosure as
list and as concept, about Microsoft and about script kiddies that I
finally did not understand what you meant.
  Are you trying to say that full disclosure is only useful for script
kiddies ? If it's what you meant, it would be nice from you to tell us
what we have to do... In my views, full disclosure may cause problems,
but it is still the best solution for preventing mass attacks and for
reporting bugs and holes. If you got something better for alerting other
administrators and being well informed, feel free to tell me!
  The other thing is about Microsoft... Well, if you think that the
Microsoft's politic is a danger for the user's security and for your
own, all you have to do is to change your environment and choose a free
Unix like Linux or *BSD. Where's the matter ? In fact, we can not force
users to leave Windows and Microsoft (or simply proprietary) products,
but you, and everyone of us, can stronly recommand theses ones. And I'm
sure that it is a good solution for every open-minded administrator or
user that likes freedom.

We spend our times discussing the flaws in developers coding and
saying "a s cript kiddie  can do this" how can we stop script kiddies
from doing X.

Let's look at script kiddies. Where do you think they get information
from to be script kiddies? I'll tell you where. From lists like this.
Yes, this list is pro-active in the discussion of preventing attacks
on various network, systems, and softwares by script kiddies.

How much of a percentage of discussion and disclosure on this list is
actually counter acting script kiddie hood and how much is actually
aiding them to carry out further malicious activities across the
internet on a global scale?

Yes, you can use this list to make vendors aware of a security
situation. Although how many users are updating straight away and how
many users are unaware of a flaw.

I think security lists are geared up more at the vendor patching X,
than making the consumer aware of a security flaw and asking them to

Microsoft Windows. How many consumers know of flaws and the need to
update as-it-happens. How many consumers read online articles from,
for example Cnet News? Hardly any.

Leaving the script kiddies to a hackfest of compromising home and
small business network's and computer's for months, going undetected.
Corporate network's and computer's obviously don't apply, because they
are watching list's like FD like a hawk. Though for the average
consumer. It is likely your computer will be taken over and zombified
by scripts run by script kiddies.

FD is only informing corporations and not the average user. Even
corporations and developers cannot alert the -majority- of average
users to a security flaw, which need's an urgent patch implemented.

Most average users will still be vulnerable to flaws FD was disclosing
more than a year ago.

F**k Microsoft.

They (Microsoft) need to start using "Auto Updating" home and small
business network's, and it doesn't matter about the critics who say
it's a breach of privacy and you have no right modifying a users
computer. At the end of the day, we are talking about the spawning of
very large bot net's owned by script kiddies, who can easily take down
internet back bones and take out key infrastructure, which the very
existence of the internet depends on.

FD or BUGTRAQ can't save us now. Only Microsoft can. Implement Auto
updating software for security patches without delay.

I don't have much faith in Service Pack 2 (The overhaul of Mircosoft

All of these Microsoft exploits will be the death of the internet one
day, when script kiddies decide to execute the mother of all denial of
service attacks against the internet. Trust me, bot net's big enough
are paused and waiting for such a day.

Microsoft will have big legal costs if it can be proven a Microsoft
flaw was the main vulnerability used.


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