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Re: joe the "expert" (was Re: IE is just as safe as FireFox )
From: Micheal Espinola Jr <michealespinola () gmail com>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:06:10 -0500

Neither viewpoint is 100%.  But, over-all I would have to agree with
joe.  MCSE's (in my experience) are typically not worth the credit
[automatically] applied to them - not unless they have the experience
to back it.

That is of course true for any certification in any industry.  MCSE's
are easy to pick on, because the industry (employers) see it fit to
give them preferential treatment equal to System Engineer
qualifications of other products/OSs/etc - yet many MCSE's do not hold
the underlying understanding necessary for that title - and have
simply remembered and regurgitated a series of questions and answers
within an allotted time period.

I would think that members of this particular list would agree that
the larger percentile of computer users/administrators/developers that
know the least about the hardware and software they are using - are
Microsoft/Windows/PC users.

Don't take personal offense to generalizations and stereotypes that
may sound like they apply to you.  They exist only because there is
some truth to them, but they are not considered absolute.  Next time
you wish to express your viewpoint, why don't you try it with a little
more professionalism and decorum suitable for a public forum.

Your accusations again joe's expertise and knowledge in this area are
completely unsubstantiated.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:16:52 -0800 (PST), Maurizio Trinco
<maurizio_trinco () yahoo com> wrote:
"joe" <mvp () joeware net> wrote:

[1] Don't get me started on MCSEs. As a whole I
think they hurt Windows far
more than any other thing. A bunch of people who
feel they are experts in
Windows because they took a couple of tests that 10
year olds could memorize
and pass and yet still not be able to run anything.
The best I can say about
MCSEs is that I will *try* not to look down upon
them for being MCSEs and
let them prove themselves to be worthless before I
assume it in person.

Now from joe's own site, comes this fully untrue

'So what is a Microsoft MVP? The flip response is a
Microsoft MVP is a person who answers the questions
the MCSE/MCD/MCT folks ask.'

My dear Joe,

Let's see what Microsoft has to say about MVPs:

Are Microsoft MVPs experts in all Microsoft
technologies and products?
No. Although many MVPs have in-depth knowledge of more
than one product or technology, none of them are
experts in all Microsoft technologies or products.

So, my dear joe, you are nothing but an ego-inflated
bullshitter. Your verbal diarrhea is only matched by
your unbelievably low level of competence when it
comes to Microsoft products. Being an MCSE is much
more than answering some "how do I send a message with
Outlook" in one or two newsgroups. I worked really
hard for my MCSE titles and honestly, the idea that I
(or any of my colleagues) could seek enlightenment
from you is simply ridiculous. If you think that
passing exams like 216, 296 or the design exams is
something an... er, MVP could do... then you'd better
think again.
While I'm an MCSE, I'm by no means an ass-kisser for
Microsoft, as your MVPiness seems to be. Their
products, contrary to popular belief, could be
extremely complex (try real life business environment,
compared to that unlicensed version of Windows 2003
server you're running at home) and many times
extremely badly written and vulnerable -- but very
complex nevertheless. Saying otherwise, only proves
your lack of specialization (hint: familiarity is NOT
specialization; you may be 'familiar' with your
colorful XP, but that makes you by no means a
Oh, and something else: for some 10 years before I
became an MCSE, I was the typical Unix admin. I used
to laugh at Windows NT, I stopped laughing at 2000.
I'm by no means friends with hip-kiddies who think
Linux is cooler than Window$$$, I really dislike
Microsoft-moronized Windows ass-kissers like you, who
only know buzzwords, but have no real knowledge of the
system. You should go together and exchange some
fanatic e-mails; you belong in a place where
'my-OS-is-longer-yours' fights
Anything else... is just proving yourself how MVP and
not MCSE you are. Or whatever Unix/IT certification
you may choose, other than the ridiculous MVP thingie.

Take care and don't let the bedbugs bite.

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