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Re: MSIE (mshtml.dll) OBJECT tag vulnerability
From: "meta security" <metasec () gmail com>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:19:40 -0400

Full Disclosure is a good thing and anyone involved in the security
community should be thankful for its existence!  If people actually believe
that the 0-days posted to this list are all 100% unique.... all i can say is
wow, you're disconnected.  Lets pretend for a second that this was never
posted - does anyone honestly think that there isn't someone else (someone
with serious malicious intent) out there working around the clock to hammer
out IE exploits?  If you don't then you're naive and enjoy a false sense of
security!  That same person with malicious intent will eventually, or worse,
might have already discovered this same problem and guess what?...they're
not going to tell anyone!  Well they might tell others, but its certainly
not going to be vendor or most of the people reading this list.  At least
with disclosures like Michal's the community is made aware of the problem
and can be on the lookout for attacks that might otherwise go undetected.
Yes, pushing the problem to the surface might cause other less skilled
attackers to latch on and start exploiting the vulnerability -- But this
also leads to definition updates from AV companies, or if mountains feel
like moving, releasing a patch out of cycle, both are good things.  What it
really comes down to is awareness and that's exactly how this helps the
community, it keeps everyone alert and on their toes, if that's not your cup
of tea then you're in the wrong industry.  Personally, I would rather know
about the problem before the patch drops...maybe this is a weird concept,
but i have a feeling one or two people agree with me.

On 4/27/06, Tim Bilbro <trbilbro () verizon net> wrote:

Setting aside analogies, the questions remain: Does full disclosure make
the IT community as whole less secure than it would otherwise would be?
Is it more dangerous to have a handfull of sophisticated blackhats
lurking about with an unknown exploit vs. publishing it for every
wannabe hacker to use?  I am confident that the answer is that fully
disclosing discovered vulnerabilites without first giving the vendor a
reasonable chance to address them is more harmful. There is no question
that vendors, particulary Microsoft, have a history of neglect in this
area, and folks have a right to be angry with them. Unfortunately, full
disclosure doesn't hurt them as much as it hurts the information
security community as a whole. While not patronizing the vendor because
of the neglect is the most logical choice, it is an impracticality for
many. I don't question the right or ethics of full disclosure. It's just
pain in the neck that might otherwise be avoided or at least minimized.
It's not helping.

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Seltzer [mailto:larry () larryseltzer com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:34 PM
To: bob () coldrain net; 'Tim Bilbro'
Cc: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk
Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] MSIE (mshtml.dll) OBJECT tag

There aren't people out there looking to exploit the flaws in your car
in order to drive it where they want it to go. It's a lousy analogy.

Larry Seltzer
eWEEK.com Security Center Editor
http://security.eweek.com/ http://blog.eweek.com/blogs/larry%5Fseltzer/
Contributing Editor, PC Magazine
larryseltzer () ziffdavis com

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces () lists grok org uk
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces () lists grok org uk] On Behalf Of
bruen () coldrain net
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:25 PM
To: Tim Bilbro
Cc: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] MSIE (mshtml.dll) OBJECT tag

Hi Tim,

   Perhaps instead of viewing this as breaking into locked doors and
look at it as consumer product information, such as problems with my
automobile, it would not appear as such a big deal. I like product
recalls and keeping vendors honest. Product safety has improved
significantly over the past 20 years because of the openness of the
flaws. I am sure that software has and will continue to benefit from
full disclosure of their flaws.

                    cheers, bob

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Tim Bilbro wrote:

You do a disservice to all IT shops by announcing these
vulnerabilities before contacting the vendor. I am sure it would not
generate as much web traffic to your site, but it is only fair and
right to allow at least some amount of time for the vendor to respond.

If you think you are helping, you are wrong. Would you go around town
checking which stores are unlocked at night and then publish the list
in the news before letting the shop owners know? That's pretty much
what you are doing. It's just not helping. There is no proof that it

Tim Bilbro
Information Security Specialist
trbilbro () verizon net
web: www.bloglines.com/blog/Bilbro
RSS: www.bloglines.com/blog/Bilbro/rss

Bob Bruen
Cold Rain Technologies

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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