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The new 'cyber politica' mailing list thats planned for the non-technical elite
From: n3td3v <xploitable () gmail com>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:02:55 +0100

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 12:34 PM, n3td3v <xploitable () gmail com> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:01 AM,  <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:47:55 BST, AaRoNg11 said:

If the job was that sensitive of a job, do you really think they'd be using
gmail to send important information?

Remember - n3td3v is in the British Isles, where clusterfuck IT is rampant in
the government sector.  You know, like "Let's lose the financial details of

Oh, why was the disk unencrypted? Because the policy on how to securely
transfer the data was deemed so sensitive that it was only accessible to
upper management - the people *doing* the work didn't have access to the
policy of how to do it right.

Maybe we can take this over to cyber-politics () lists grok org uk or
whatever name he gives the new mailing list when John Cartwright
finally gets the finger out.

We need a non-technical, unbiased, unmoderated version of
full-disclosure where people can post rants, raves, speeches, ideas,
views, opinons, news items, the dirty on employees, gossip, security
conferences, or other intelligence thats non-technical.

A place where people like n3td3v don't get made to feel bad for
posting their views on whats going on in the security community.

There seems to be a feeling that anyone who is non-technical is
unwelcome on full-disclosure and end up getting written about on
securityfocus by robert lemos and made to feel a bad person. :(

This is unfair, in the bigger scope of things, there just isn't
anywhere to go to post non-technical stuff thats unmoderated.

So instead of being nasty to n3td3v and writing about him on
securityfocus and declaring a hunt for n3td3v, let's just create a new
mailing list where people like me won't get made uncomfortable for

The bottom line is, there is no non-technical, unbiased, unmoderated
version of full-disclosure and there should be one.

We need a cyber political mailing list, where anything goes, right now
it just seems that people don't really want n3td3v around, but thats
not because n3td3v has done something wrong, its just because there is
no where else suitable to post about cyber politics thats
non-technical, unbiased, unmoderated.

I don't like posting to full-disclosure if I feel unwelcome, but I
don't want to be muzzled, I want John Cartwright to setup a new
mailing list for the non-technical issues.

This is my proposal im putting forward, so let's talk about it.

I say 'cyber-politica' is a decent name for it we can have.

Although im concerned the 'cyber' might go out of fashion over the
years, so if you have cyber in the name it might get outdated.

I think the new mailing list will be perfect for me and gadi types,
then we won't be annoying the list anymore about what we think of
everyone and cyber security.

I think full-disclosure has had enough of opinionated people like me
and gadi who chime in when we feel like it, it appears to upset the
full-disclosure crowd, so a new mailing list would be brilliant for
the non-technical crowd who still want to chime in when we're not
happy about something.

When people like me and gadi types post our opinionated views about
people and cyber security, folks don't always reply and give their
views, because they think the mailing list isn't supposed to be about
the non-technical subject, so are reluctant to get involved incase it
increases the 'noise'.

What's needed is a non-technical mailing list where the non-technical
elite can hang out.

US-CERT.gov website already have technical and non-technical sections,
so why can't full-disclosure be split in two?

Its obvious me and gadi are not welcome on the current format
full-disclosure, so we need a new mailing list for the non-technical

I was very upset to be bashed by robert lemos and his friends via news
articles and blogs, so now its time for a place we can go and not
upset people anymore. It was never my intention to upset folks but
thats what seems to have happened. They seem to think the
full-disclosure list is being destroyed by the non-technical elite. So
why not give the non-technical elite a mailing list of their own, so
people won't get upset because we post an email that hasn't got a
vulnerability or exploit in it.

We should leave the full-disclosure list for technical users, and the
non-technical users have their own mailing list to post on, then
nobody can be accused of botching up the technical list.

All the best,


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