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Re: ACM.ORG data leak still there 4 days after announcing to CEO John White
From: "Justin C. Klein Keane" <justin () madirish net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:50 -0500

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Hello,

  as I stated previously, the intent is critical in determining
criminality based on the statue.  Each sentence that includes
"unauthorized access" also include "with intent."  For instance:

"knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer
without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of
such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value"

If you do accidentally mistype a URL it clearly is not a violation of
the statue.  If you utilize SQL injection to retrieve financial
information in order to support a carding ring you clearly violate the
statue.  If you expose a vulnerability in order to report it to the
responsible parties and to raise awareness, well, that falls into a gray
area where "intent" is probably the crux of the decision.  You can read
the statute online in many places
(http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html), it's worth checking out.

One more time for emphasis - I'm not a lawyer ;)

- --
Justin C. Klein Keane
http://www.MadIrish.net

The digital signature on this message can be confirmed
using the public key at http://www.madirish.net/gpgkey

On 02/22/2010 03:19 PM, Benji wrote:
"Title 18 Section 1030, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986,
pretty much limits crimes to those intent on committing fraud or
disclosing national secrets."

Does that just cover fraud? Surely a database injection counts as
unauthorised access?

Does this mean that now anyone can start injecting websites and
extracting data, and aslong as they dont use the data to 'commit fraud
or dislose national secrets', or albeit, it cant be proved, that person
is safe?

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Justin C. Klein Keane
<justin () madirish net <mailto:justin () madirish net>> wrote:

I'm not a lawyer, and I assume Benji isn't either, but it's worth noting
that Title 18 Section 1030, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986,
pretty much limits crimes to those intent on committing fraud or
disclosing national secrets.  Exposing personal information doesn't seem
to fit under any of the statutory definitions of crime unless you use
that information to commit identity theft.  The word "intent" figures
prominently in that statute, so I'd surmise full-disclosure actually
argues against this access being a crime.

Justin C. Klein Keane
http://www.MadIrish.net

The digital signature on this message can be confirmed
using the public key at http://www.madirish.net/gpgkey

On 02/22/2010 02:52 PM, Benji wrote:
Not to be a dick or anything, but whether it should be or not is
irrelevant, it is a crime. As you seem to be a "security expert"
 doing
"penetration testing and security audits" I'm sure you'd
understand that
for example, a remote file include is literally just a case of
'modifying one parameter of an url'.

You didnt enumerate passwords, well, I guess that makes the crime
slightly less serious. Personal info isnt worth that much I've heard.

Infact, by publishing data and the fact there is a hole, you could
argue
that infact you couldve made the situation worse for ACM.
Hypothetically, now you've displayed that a hole is there, someone
could
go and dump the database saving them the time of even looking for a
vulnerable site.

I'm just wondering what makes you so sure they wont do anything
like that?

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:46 PM, the hacker <info () the-hacker info
<mailto:info () the-hacker info>
<mailto:info () the-hacker info <mailto:info () the-hacker info>>> wrote:

    Hello Benji

    I did not crack/enumerate any passwords, use buffer overflow with
    metasploit or whatever other tools...

    I dont think that by just modifying one parameter of an url you
    already break a law (or all people that have spelling problems
when
    entering an url would be in jail).

    Also I have contacted ACM with my REAL name, address, phone number
    etc. via email.

    I've even called the CEO twice!

    So they know my identity because I just wanted to let them know
    about the problem on their website - but when they did not
react for
    4 days I extracted some sample data (I could have got much more)
    from the site to mail it to them. I've extracted enought to show
    them that its not just 10 addresses, but its far from everything.

    So I wonder why I should be in trouble for wanting to help them?

    Do you other guys on the list also think that this is already
a crime?

    By the way, I've sent the mail with the data 2 hours ago but no
    reaction.

    Greetings

    th








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_______________________________________________
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Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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