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Re: Fwd: Rate Stratfor's Incident Response
From: Kyle Creyts <kyle.creyts () gmail com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 02:15:32 -0500

How many of those engaged in these attacks _could_ actually fix the vulns
they exploit? What is a good "rough estimate" in your opinion?
On Jan 11, 2012 12:47 AM, "Laurelai" <laurelai () oneechan org> wrote:

On 1/10/12 11:32 PM, James Smith wrote:
Well I do agree with what you are stating. As I have seen incidents
like this happen to many times.
This mailing list is a big part of the IT Security community.



-----Original Message----- From: Laurelai
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:18 AM
To: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Fwd: Rate Stratfor's Incident Response

On 1/10/12 10:18 PM, Byron Sonne wrote:
Don't piss off a talented adolescent with computer skills.
Amen! I love me some stylin' pwnage :)

Whether they were skiddies or actual hackers, it's still amusing (and
frightening to some) that companies who really should know better, in
fact, don't.

And again, if companies hired these people, most of whom come from
disadvantaged backgrounds and are self taught they wouldn't have as much
a reason to be angry anymore. Most of them feel like they don't have any
real opportunities for a career and they are often right. Microsoft
hired some kid who hacked their network, it is a safe bet he isn't going
to be causing any trouble anymore. Talking about the trust issue, who
would you trust more the person who has all the certs and experience
that told you your network was safe or the 14 year old who proved him
wrong? We all know if that kid had approached microsoft with his exploit
in a responsible manner they would have outright ignored him, that's why
this mailing list exists, because companies will ignore security issues
until it bites them in the ass to save a buck.

People are way too obsessed with having certifications that don't
actually teach practical intrusion techniques. If a system is so fragile
that teenagers can take it down with minimal effort then there is a
serious problem with the IT security industry. Think about it how long
has sql injection been around? There is absolutely no excuse for being
vulnerable to it. None what so ever. These kids are showing people the
truth about the state of security online and that is whats making people
afraid of them. They aren't writing 0 days every week, they are using
vulnerabilities that are publicly available. Using tools that are
publicly available, tools that were meant to be used by the people
protecting the systems. Clearly the people in charge of protecting these
system aren't using these tools to scan their systems or else they would
have found the weaknesses first.

The fact that government organizations and large name companies and
government contractors fall prey to these types of attacks just goes to
show the level of hypocrisy inherent to the situation. Especially when
their solution to the problem is to just pass more and more restrictive
laws (as if that's going to stop them). These kids are showing people
that the emperor has no clothes and that's whats making people angry,
they are putting someones paycheck in danger. Why don't we solve the
problem by actually addressing the real problem and fixing systems that
need to be fixed? Why not hire these kids with the time and energy on
their hands to probe for these weaknesses on a large scale? The ones
currently in the job slots to do this clearly aren't doing it.  I bet if
they started replacing these people with these kids it would shake the
lethargy out of the rest of them and you would see a general increase in
competence and security. Knowing that if you get your network owned by a
teenager will not only get you fired, but replaced with said teenager is
one hell of an incentive to make sure you get it right.


Yes they would have to be taught additional skills to round out what
they know, but every job requires some level of training and there are
quite a few workplaces that will help their employees continue their
education because it benefits the company to do so. This would be no
different except that the employees would be younger, and younger people
do tend to learn faster so it would likely take less time to teach these
kids the needed skills to round out what they already know than it would
to teach someone older the same thing. It is the same principal behind
teaching young children multiple languages, they learn them better than
adults.

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Yes I am aware they are, the ones who cry out that they are just script
kiddies and such are the ones who are most likely to be vulnerable in my
experience. Point is they still got owned, doesn't matter if the method
was easy. In fact because it was easy should be an even greater concern
to everyone here. The fact that Stratfor got owned like they did shows
they were beyond negligent, HBGary was the same as was Sony. They
shouldn't be trying to prosecute these kids they should go after these
companies for grossly mishandling peoples personal information.

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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