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Re: Fwd: Rate Stratfor's Incident Response
From: Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l () gmail com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 01:37:21 +0100

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Laurelai <laurelai () oneechan org> wrote:

On 1/7/12 6:20 PM, Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:37:44 CST, Laurelai said:

Because they pay the kids to own them in a safe manner to show that

It's not as simple as all that.  A good pen-tester needs more skills than
how to pwn a server.  You need some business smarts, and you need to be
careful about writing the rules of engagement (some pen tests that involve
physical attacks can literally get you shot at if you screw this part
up), and
then *sticking with them* (you find a major social engineering problem
doing a black-box test of some front-end servers, you better re-negotiate
rules of engagement before you do anything else).  Also, once a pen test
starts, you can't take your time and poke it with the 3 or 4 types of
that you're good at - you have 3 weeks starting at 8AM Monday to hit it
37 different classes of attacks they're likely to see and another 61 types
of attacks they're not likely to see and aren't expecting.  And be
prepared to
work any one of those 94 from "looks like might be an issue" to something
can put in a report and say "You Have A Problem".

Almost no company is stupid enough to hire a pen testing team without
that team
posting a good-sized performance bond in case of a screw-up taking out a
server, or a rogue pentester stealing the data. (ESPECIALLY in this case,
*already* caught them stealing the data once :)

And the kids are going to land a $1M performance bond, how?

(Hint - think this through.  Really good pentesters make *really* good
If those kiddies had what it took to be good pentesters, they'd already be
making bucks as pentesters, not as kiddies)

 their so called expertsd are full of shit, then they fire said experts
and hire competent people saving time money and resources, try and

Doesn't scale, because there's not enough competent people out there.
140 million .coms, there aren't 140 million security experts out there.

It's not a new idea - I've heard it every year or two since probably
most of the people on this list were born.  The fact that almost no
actually *do* it, and that those hackers who have successfully crossed
over to
consulting are rare enough that you can name most of them, should tell you
something about how well it ends up working in practice.

 Well enjoy your doomed industry then. Ill continue to take great
pleasure as the so called experts get owned by teenagers.

imo public shaming(ie. owned by kiddies, usually they get bigger media
attention) can force companies to take security more seriously, but imo
hiring the kiddies isn't the solution.
even if he/she happens to be the "superstar", who given the chance would be
able to secure your infrastructure, but the industry is rotten mostly
because it-sec isn't as high priority as it should be.
it is an added-value, usually bolted-on top of the screwed up legacy
processes/softwares, and the higher-ups expect it to be bought by money
they would pay for the cert, they would pay for the hacker-proof seal, they
would pay for the insurance, and the decent looking it-security consulant
company, but they won't change the flawed processes, and the bad priorities.
of course many of them will get owned, lose a good chunk of money, some of
them even will go out of business, but until most of them can get away with
those broken model, they won't try to fix the underlying problem.

Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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