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Re: Do the Happy Dance people...
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:14:16 -0400
Begin forwarded message:
From: Vint Cerf <vint () google com>
Date: August 30, 2008 1:04:04 PM EDT
To: "Nick Weaver" <nweaver () gmail com>
Cc: nnsquad <nnsquad () nnsquad org>
Subject: [ NNSquad ] Re: Do the Happy Dance people...
for me, the question is whether an aggregate constraint of the form
250 GB/month will prove to be effective. An alternative is to try to
institute rate constraints (or perhaps equivalent reduction in
priority?) during times of congestion on the up (most common) or
downlink. The limit for Comcast is bit rate capacity (bits per second)
rather than aggregrate byte delivery. Of course they are related since
the higher the capacity in bits/second the more bytes you can delivery
per unit time but the congestion is more associated with bit rate over
short periods than absolute byte carrying over a period of a month.
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vint () google com
On Aug 30, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Nick Weaver wrote:
When you get an ISP to implement a policy that is transparent,
neutral, and only has anticompetitive effects where the bandwidth
needed for 8 hours a day of HD content is considered insufficient ,
you should be doing a major happy dance.
Yet the response that this is some evil plot by Comcast is ridiculous.
If Comcast was interested in building a policy that IS
anticompetitive, the solution would be simple: A soft cap at 50 GB,
and $1/GB beyond that. Voila: that WOULD kill video over the net.
Easy. Signed, sealed, and delivered.
And if your reaction to a benign policy like Comcast's is as stern as
your reaction to a true anticompetitive policy, they are just going to
write you off: "if you are going to do the time, might as well do the
All the other cable ISPs and wanna-be-cable company ISPs are going to
look at your reaction and go "these guys can't be reasoned with. They
can't be satisfied. So since they will always be angry, who cares
what they think?"
It makes your arguments far easier to counter when you can be painted
So do the happy dance! The network neutrality types got an almost
pure victory in this case. You WON this battle.
Don't go turning a tactical victory into a strategic defeat by failing
to acknowledge your victory.
 HD today, 720P, is 2.5 Mbps over Hulu. As Hulu is the biggest
player in the HD game, this should be taken as a reasonable amount for
what HD content really costs for Internet delivery. 8 hours a day is
a LOT of HDTV.
[ Today's 2.5 Mbps streaming Hulu is not (as far as I'm concerned)
true HD quality vis-a-vis broadcast HD. Nor should subscribers
be constrained to real-time streaming rates when an obviously
more powerful model is faster-than-real-time delivery of very
high quality content to local staging (e.g. local disk)
facilities. Not only does local staging allow for a more
responsive interface, but permits off-peak transfers to be
handled in a much more effective manner. Off peak transfers are
available to be viewed at the consumer's convenience (during
prime time, if desired) without adding to peak traffic loads).
If ISPs should decide -- as per your speculation -- that they
can just "ignore" the analysis of those who question various of
their (often proprietary) network management decisions, they do
so at an ever increasing peril of additional and continuing
regulatory and legislative interventions.
-- Lauren Weinstein
NNSquad Moderator ]
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- Re: Do the Happy Dance people... David Farber (Aug 30)