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Re: Internet Backbone Index
From: Tim Flavin <tim () i1 net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:09:40 -0500 (CDT)

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Gary Zimmerman wrote:

Sean did not know that Peering is what makes you a National Backbone

It doesn't, but having a national backbone that your customers can use
sure does. Peering, in my opinion, only make that network better.

It may make you what has been coined as a tier 1 provider, but I
do not see that this can scale as more companies access the net. If you
remember at the Nanog meeting, Randy address this model of 2 to 5
peers/transits if I remember the discuss and that is what we are doing at
SAVVIS.  Fortunately Our target markets are not just libraries and other
information providers, it's EVERYONE that needs a T1 and above connection
to the Internet.  How many cities are you in Sean, where are DRA's POPs for
customers to access?  

Sean can obviously speak for himself, but I beleive they are in 27
countries and several cities in the US.  I have spoken with many of the
fine folks at DRA and have seen first hand how their network functions and
am quite impressed.

How much bandwidth does DRA have to get these
customer to other network?  Let's compare bandwidth shall we.

Let's not, let's compare how well that bandwidth is managed.  I can hear
DRA routes through all my various connections in all the cities I'm
located, through all the various peering and/or transit connections.

Now, Savvis on the other hand selectivly announces their routes to their
various NSP's, and those are not equal announcments as I travel one
backbone to get to customer A, and yet a totally different backbone to get
to customer B, and even so far as to goto a different city to get to
customer C of yours.  So if I cannot get to customer C in St Louis unless
I travel UUnet to Chicago to get into your network, makes me think you DO
NOT have a national backbone, but rather are no more than a reseller of
transit such as myself.  

Actually, not as myself because my customers can travel my backbone
between cities without heading out to a transit provider when staying
within my customer connections on my network.  And I garantee the same can
be said for any true national backbone provider.

When 80 to 90 percent of the Internet traffic is to MCI, SPRINT and UUNET
then our model is the right way to build this, not to try and see how many
peering agreements one can get.  

You are right about our model,  IT WORKS.

On good days I imagine it might, but I've seen so many problems with your
routing it scares me.

Tim Flavin              Internet Access for St Louis & Chicago
Internet 1st, Inc       Toll Free Sales & Support 800-875-3173
http://www.i1.net       For more information email info () i1 net

Gary Zimmerman
V.P. of Network Engineering
Savvis Communications Corp.
email: garyz () savvis com
Office: 314.719.2423
Address: 7777 Bonhomme Suite 1000
               St. Louis, MO 63105

From: Sean Donelan <SEAN () SDG DRA COM>
To: nanog () merit edu
Subject: Re: Internet Backbone Index
Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 3:55 PM

I would really like to know how Boardwatch can continually say Savvis is
national backbone provider when they peer with nobody, and that is part
their business plan, and only buy transit from the big 5.  Then they
neglect to list DRA as a backbone provider, when DRA appears at many
exchanges and peers with damn near everyone under the sun from what I

Publisher's perogative.

I'm always amused when the latest edition of the Boardwatch ISP directory
comes out.  Fortunately, DRA's target markets are libraries and other
information providers, not ISPs, although we have a few ISPs as
Even though DRA tried to provide accurate information to Boardwatch, it
always seems to get mangled in the Boardwatch editorial process.  For
example, in the latest issue DRA's listing says we have a 0.099 Mbps
connection with Sprint.  I don't know how to even order a 0.099 Mbps
connection.  In a previous issue Boardwatch said DRA sold dialup
for $19.95/month, even though we had told Boardwatch DRA didn't offer
any dialup services.  At least Boardwatch no longer lists Sean Doran as
the chief engineer for InternetMCI.

After awhile one gets tired of trying to correct other people's mistakes
over and over again.  Maybe I should start following the InternetMCI
and claim everything is a big secret.
Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
  Affiliation given for identification not representation

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