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RE: net-loss (was RE: attention net-grrls)
From: Rich Sena <ras () poppa thick net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 06:39:33 -0400 (EDT)

Ya know I thought of trying to snap off yet another funny quip, quiping
is of course what I do best (well there are other things but typing
gets.... nevermind) , and to my dismay I actually thought about
what she and later Danielle were saying - and then I parsed the list of
female co-workers I've had in the field to date (no pun - cut it out now -
man this serious stuff is killing me - so much *good* material here - so
much immaturity wasted on this serious stuff - anyway...)

I thought of each of them and to be honest I can only recall 1 or 2 that
was really *any* good (what definitions I'm using for good actually seems 
to be the problem here that we're all missing). However as I sat down and
hummed my 'Opressions, suppression, it's OK...' mantra at my keboard - I
then also parsed the men that I have worked with/hired - and to be honest
they weren't all that much better - especially if dismissed the way that
some of the grrls ( to borrow the term) were, and if applied to that same
moshed up definition I tried to use whenI parsed the ladies...

Cmon lets be honest - the same tags get applied - though the linguistics
change - our terms were just as stoopid as any other of the Nerdolution's:
the ole booth babe at trade shows, one of my favortie has always been
'pincushion' (you do the math) - but the point is I'm leaning toward these
'grrls' as having a point here - they have had it rougher than the us over
thirty stalky pony-railed red-heads... and all the rest of you neo-hippie
wanna-be's too... they started out in the hole catching deuces (man I love
using that line in a sentence) - sure we usually trash the new *guy* but
at some point the new *guy* becomes one of the company squaler - but the
new *grrrl* is usually not allowed in all the reindeer games (mostly
because they invlove the gents huddled around the big NOC monitor
critiquing the latest mpeg - ah to be young, dumb and full of gum...  Man
am I an hr nightmare - this actually set out to make a point...

Anyway - keep the faith sistahhhhs...

I am nothing if not net-Q! - ras () poppa thick net

On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Rachel Luxemburg wrote:

Until you've spent a couple of years being the only woman in the room at
meetings and other business events, you really don't understand how
different the feeling is to be someplace, even virtually, where everyone is
like you.

I suspect that men who hold or have held jobs in overwhelmingly female
fields have the best chance of grokking this issue. Or, of course, other
minorities (you could count the number of black employees at my employer's
HQ on one hand).

If you feel threatened or offended by the fact that some women feel a need
to have some space for themselves, I'm sorry for you. But to call it sexist
or counterproductive just shows how little you understand the issue.

Rachel Luxemburg            rslux () link-net com
Visit SoundAmerica     http://soundamerica.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu]On Behalf Of
rdobbins () netmore net
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 9:58 AM
To: nanog () merit edu
Cc: ahuja () wibh net
Subject: OT: net-loss (was RE: attention net-grrls)

Gee, I thought that IP, BGP, DNS, ACLs, and so on worked the same for women
as for men.

One of the main reasons I'm on this list is to learn from the experiences
and expertise of others - male -and- female.

You're of course free to do as you wish, but I personally think the whole
idea of a 'Women in Networking' list is absurd, revanchist, and sexist (to
use the politically correct terminology currently in vogue amongst those who
claim to be striving for 'equality', yet who seem to do everything they can
to claim that they themselves have 'special needs' and so on, which of
course undermines the rationale their supposedly egalitarian agenda).

Technology works the same for everyone, regardless of gender, race, creed,
or color; that's one of the beautiful things about it.  Consciously erecting
artificial boundaries where none need exist strikes me as being laughably
archaic, and ultimately counterproductive.

But, hey, what do I know?  After all, I'm just a member of the oppressive
patriachy, dedicated to keeping females barefoot, naked, and in the
wiring-closet, right?  Talk about your stereotyping.

Sorry for the rant, but this sort of thing strikes me as being inimical to
the spirit of the Net in general, and this list in particular.  I'll shut
up, now.

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