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Re: engineering --> ddos and flooding
From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja () darkwing uoregon edu>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:30:51 -0700 (PDT)


On Thu, 31 May 2001, Andrew Dorsett wrote:


I'm going to reply to my own post here.  I am thoroughly impressed.  I sent
the message out and in 10 minutes I had two replies.  Keep the ideas
coming, I will form up a general suggestion message and post it later.  One
thing to think about, I want a way to do it without having to call a NOC
like Genuity and asking them to put in a filter, I want a way to do
something about it at a lower level.

If you think about what you're asking for means operationally, what you
want is the ability to get your upstream to allow you to install filters
on their routers... That requires a great of deal trust, which is not
likely to be forthcoming in the current evironment.

 Like multiple connections....Remember
NOC calls take time because of hold times...  Someone just told me (on
here) that the IETF is working on something,

That was Jared

anyone know how many more
years it will take for that protocol?

One of the obersevations I would make up you original question is that dos
attacks do not in this day and age typically originate in core networks
but rather on tens or hundreds or thousands of edge network devices...
your upstream is unlikely to have a good handle on the actual source of
the attack (which in any case may be several locations) rather it's far
more easy to characterize the target (you) and filter on that.

Thanks again,
Andrew

At 05:59 PM 5/31/2001, you wrote:
Hey, this is a technical question for all of the Network
Engineers/Architects on the list.  Has a method been found to stop an
incoming attack?  Granted you can filter the packets to null on the
router, but that doesn't stop them from coming across the wire and into
the router.  Has a way been devised to stop them from coming into the
router; via something like a BGP update to null the packets or what?  I'm
concerned about a flood that is so massive coming from the core and
flooding a small T1 or less.

Thanks,
Andrew
---
<zerocool () netpath net>
http://www.andrewsworld.net/
ICQ: 2895251
Cisco Certified Network Associate
Development Assistant: Netpath/Stratonet, Inc.
                       (http://www.netpath.net/)
                       Email: dorsett () netpath net

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all
of them yourself." -- Unknown
"YEEEHA!!! What a CRASH!!!" -- Random System Administrator

---
<zerocool () netpath net>
http://www.andrewsworld.net/
ICQ: 2895251
Cisco Certified Network Associate
Development Assistant: Netpath/Stratonet, Inc.
                        (http://www.netpath.net/)
                        Email: dorsett () netpath net

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all
of them yourself." -- Unknown
"YEEEHA!!! What a CRASH!!!" -- Random System Administrator


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli                                   joelja () darkwing uoregon edu
Academic User Services                       consult () gladstone uoregon edu
     PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of
arms.  Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of
the right, 1843.






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