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Re: Stealth Blocking
From: "Jeremy T. Bouse" <undrgrid () Toons UnderGrid net>
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:04:58 -0700

        Okay, I don't want to perpetuate this lil battle more than it needs
to however I do have a few observations that are blindingly glaring to me
and perhaps been overlooked... 

Mitch Halmu was said to been seen saying:

On Wed, 23 May 2001, John Payne wrote:

Umm... yes.  You run an open, abused mail relay, got listed in RSS and
whine about it rather than fix it.

I have posted two URLs, one was to a slashdot article describing a stealth 
assault on Macromedia. So as to clarify the provenance of the URL 
previously given by others in full context. Don't see your comments 
there. Why? Perhaps the ACLU and those other do-good  organizations 
command more respect than an ISP? But they're talking about the same 

The latter was to explain our position. Let's make several things clear. 
First, what is the difference between an open relay and a free email 
account somewhere? None, absolutely none. You could subscribe as Michael 
Mouse today, and the emperor of China tomorrow. Yet such service, with no 
credit card or implant chip to validate your true identity, giving away 
free resources to the world, is perfectly legit in your judgement.

NetSide maintains its own access control list. If a particular ip or ip
range didn't abuse our servers, we feel no need to lock them out. And 
certainly not because you say so. Not to mention that all instances of 
abuse can be traced from logs to someone's ip, and there is a venue of
complaint with the abuser's provider. We have a valid reason for doing 
so: locking our servers would prevent our customers from roaming, and we 
would also lose a good part of our non-local client base, some of them
subscribed since 1995, who couldn't make full use of their accounts

Second, open relays were the norm until Paul Vixie decided you should do
otherwise. And in many cases, he convinced thy by brute force that his 
way is the right way is the only way. But it wasn't the legal way. Most 
providers bent over and silently took the punishment. We won't. Do I seem 
to whine here?

        Point blank open-relays are not a good idea, they may have when
the technology was not there to do otherwise but come on, with SMTP AUTH
and TLS capabilities in most "reputable" mail servers there is absolutely
no excuse for it. If you remove the open relays you remove a good bit of
the fscking spam that pollutes the net and annoys the hell out of most
people. And SMTP AUTH and TLS would not prevent your roaming customers 
from sending and receiving and would actually HELP you verify it is them.

<snipped what I felt didn't need further encouragement>

        Jeremy T. Bouse

|Jeremy T. Bouse, CCNA - UnderGrid Network Services, LLC -  www.UnderGrid.net |
|       Public PGP/GPG key available through http://wwwkeys.us.pgp.net        |
|     If received unsigned (without requesting as such) DO NOT trust it!      |
| jbouse () Debian org   -   NIC Whois: JB5713   -   Jeremy.Bouse () UnderGrid net  |

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