mailing list archives
RE: end2end? (was: RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ...)
From: "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf () tndh net>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:10:12 -0700
steve uurtamo wrote:
when you write a protocol, regardless of the application, that tries
to make requirements _in the data portion_ about how the remote side
should write its _header portion_, you really are asking for trouble.
Explain how to build a protocol for the following:
A wants to tell C how to contact B for a multi-party app.
A 'knows' the address of B, so why should it require C to
take several seconds to look it up by name? Even if C were
to look up the name, it would map back to A as far as C is
concerned, so C might not go into multi-party mode because
it has one name and single matching locator.
NAT != evil, so let's try to be a little bit more evenhanded
NAT is just a technology, so your statement is arguably
true. As long as the end user has elected NAT as the tool
for solving the current problem, he accepts the associated
drawbacks. The evilness appears when humans get involved
and NAT is forced on the end user. This could either
explicitly, or (to be truly evil) unannounced by the service
provider, while at the same time claiming that they are
selling Internet service. (This is the point that started
the original thread)
and the understanding that if there are such restrictions,
it might be a little while (i.e. until all NAT implementations
everywhere plug in a handler for the new protocol in question)
before all networks in the world are going to be able to pass
their packets around with ease and zen-like harmony.
is that really so much to ask?
Actually it is. It is equivalent to insisting that my PI
prefix be distributed globally. From an end user perspective
there is no reason a little pain on the ISPs part should
prevent me from having continuous connectivity through
full prefix announcement multi-homing. Yet ISPs are
fat-&-happy pointing out that developers should never
require a protocol to carry locator information in the
data stream. There are reasons to do it, so it is
incumbent on the service providers that enforce NAT to be
straight with their customers about the fact the service
is not full capability transparent Internet access.
Re: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Bob K (Sep 07)
RE: Where NAT disenfranchises the end-user ... Roeland Meyer (Sep 07)