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Re: Lack of Security (Way OT)
From: Andy Ellifson <andy () ellifson com>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:43:14 -0700 (PDT)



How does the pilot go to the bathroom?  How does the pilot change
positions with a relief pilot on flights over 12 hours?  How does the
pilot/co-pilot perform emergency maintance in the lower avionics
compartments if their is some type of failure?  How can the pilot
visually inspect any type wing damage/other damage that may/may not
have an effect on how the plane flies?  If both pilots are
killed/overcome/pass out, how would a passenger/flight attendant get to
the controls to bring the plane down with direction from ATC?

The current model needs trust as it allows for a greater number of
survival possibilities for the aircraft.

Don't band-aid the problem.  Eliminate the problem.

I have a friend that used to work in security for a large major
airline.  The Air Marshalls have never disappeared.  You just don't
know they are there.  The only people that know they are there is the
flight crew.  They dress like you and me and act like you and me.  An
Air Marshall on any one of those 4 flights could have easily eliminated
the situation unless the pilot was an imposter from takeoff.



--- Geoff Zinderdine <geoffz () mts net> wrote:

Terribly sorry to stray so much from on topic, but I have a question
I can't
satisfactorily answer my self.  First I wish to convey my deep sorrow
and
sympathy to all listmembers directly or indirectly affected by this
attack.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you here in Canada, and we shall
strike
with one heart and mind at those that perpetrated this act.  My
question
follows:

You can't get into a cab in NYC that doesn't have a shield that
protects the
cabbie from the passengers.  Why on earth is the cabin even
accessible from
the passenger compartment?  Could planes not be constructed to
isolate the
cabin entirely from the passengers?  You could certainly provide
limited
seating for pilots that were flying along forward of this partition.

Is there any good reason for the amount of trust which is required in
the
present model?

Regards,

Geoff Zinderdine
DSL Support Technician
MTS Communications

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Stewart" <dbs () ntrnet net>
To: <nanog () merit org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Lack of Security



At 09:42 PM 9/12/2001, Robert Hough wrote:
The security we display in most aspects of our society echo the
same
security we display in most of our networks as well.

Now ask yourself, why was it so easy to hijack these planes?
Because we
have sacrificed security for convenience - and our enemy used that
against us. Well, something to chew on. G'Night.

Can someone explain to me how only allowing ticketed passengers
past
security checkpoints is going to accomplish anything toward
increased
security?  The only thing I can even dream of is that it will
reduce the
number of people passing the checkpoints.

These hijackers were ticketed passengers.

No carry-on?  OK, so it will reduce hiding places for non-metallic
weapons.  On the other hand, so much for taking your laptop with
you - are
you willing to entrust your laptop to baggage handlers?  Willing to
put
your Palm in your checked luggage?

This is just my feeling, but I honestly believe these measures are
only
giving the *appearance* of security, apparently to make the general
public
feel better.

I do agree, though, with the comments on network security - so
many, many
are much more lax about the security of their networks than
airports have
been.  As an anecdote, when I came to my current job last year, the
network
was wide open.  Since, I've placed servers behind firewalls, and
blocked
things like NetBIOS (you wouldn't believe the cry that went up from
customers when I did that - they *want* to use NetBIOS shares
between
business offices in various cities)





=====
-
-Andy Ellifson
-

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