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Re: 365x24x7 (sleep patterns)
From: Marshall Eubanks <tme () americafree tv>
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:41:26 -0400


On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:44 PM, Mark Green wrote:


Suggestion; once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three months...  Sleep patterns take time to adjust.  
Jumping between day and night shifts will burn out even the most motivated employee.  


What we found was that we would find people who wanted to be on the night shift, and would NOT like to be changed, at 
all. Some people like night
work, or have family situations where it is ideal for them.

Regards
Marshall 

Mark Green






From: nanog-request () nanog org
Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 39, Issue 46
To: nanog () nanog org
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:52:19 +0000

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Today's Topics:

  1. 365x24x7 (harbor235)
  2. Re: New hijacks, and lots of them  (Ronald F. Guilmette)
  3. Re: 365x24x7 (Peter Hicks)
  4. Re: 365x24x7 (Charles Mills)
  5. RE: 365x24x7 (Greg Moore)
  6. Re: 365x24x7 (Steve Clark)
  7. Re: 365x24x7 (Marshall Eubanks)
  8. Re: 365x24x7 (Alex Brooks)
  9. RE: 365x24x7 (Sanders, Randall K)
 10. Re: 365x24x7 (Tony Finch)
 11. Re: 365x24x7 (harbor235)
 12. Re: 365x24x7 (Paul Graydon)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:14:05 -0400
From: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
Subject: 365x24x7
To: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimD9jYVzM_hv21y9LHzObR3RVG0YA () mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

thoughts, experience?

Mike


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 06:17:06 -0700
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg () tristatelogic com>
Subject: Re: New hijacks, and lots of them 
To: nanog () nanog org
Message-ID: <2971.1302873426 () tristatelogic com>


In message <5824.1302780126 () tristatelogic com>, I wrote:

 http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
 http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt

My apologies to anyone and everyone who tried to get at these files.
It seems that my provider may perhaps have recently developed some
rather odd ideas about packet filtering for static broadband lines.
Until I can get the problem worked out, the following alternative URLs
ought to do instead:

  ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
  ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:17:48 +0100
From: Peter Hicks <peter.hicks () poggs co uk>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <066F653E-C0F8-4026-9FE0-3A8899378D0C () poggs co uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii


On 15 Apr 2011, at 14:14, harbor235 wrote:

If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?


Although more geared up for on-call, http://blog.hinterlands.org/2010/07/running-an-oncall-rota/ is a very useful 
resource.


Peter



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:25:02 -0400
From: Charles Mills <w3yni1 () gmail com>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>, NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTint8hnfenSQZBHoS3x4hAS_P78JNA () mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
working 12 hour shifts.

In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
and 44 the next.  It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
also doubles as a retention tool for some employees.  You might have
to get creative to have all the days work out but it can be done.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:14 AM, harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

thoughts, experience?

Mike




-- 
=====================================
Charles L. Mills
Email: w3yni1 () gmail com
=====================================
Need server hosting, DR or colocation services?? See me!



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:37:54 -0400
From: Greg Moore <mooregr () greenms com>
Subject: RE: 365x24x7
To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>, NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <mailman.2806.1302882739.16627.nanog () nanog org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could cover weekends and then had extra coverage 
as needed during the week.

I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.   

-----Original Message-----
From: harbor235
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:14 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: 365x24x7

If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

thoughts, experience?

Mike




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:48:42 -0400
From: Steve Clark <sclark () netwolves com>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: Charles Mills <w3yni1 () gmail com>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <4DA84CBA.5030409 () netwolves com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 04/15/2011 09:25 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
working 12 hour shifts.

In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
and 44 the next.  It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
also doubles as a retention tool for some employees.  You might have
to get creative to have all the days work out but it can be done.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:14 AM, harbor235<harbor235 () gmail com>  wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

thoughts, experience?

Mike



I worked once in a production plant. They had 4 crews a,b,c,d and worked 6 days on 2 off. It was rotating shifts. As 
an example crew A worked 6
days 8-4 was off 2 days then started the next shift on 4-midnight, then midnight to 8. So at any one day 3 of the 4 
crews were working and the other
crew was off.

-- 
Stephen Clark
*NetWolves*
Sr. Software Engineer III
Phone: 813-579-3200
Fax: 813-882-0209
Email: steve.clark () netwolves com
http://www.netwolves.com


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:52:11 -0400
From: Marshall Eubanks <tme () americafree tv>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: Greg Moore <mooregr () greenms com>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <CAC57439-9CCC-42E3-8CB4-FA4141D8F3DA () americafree tv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:

When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could cover weekends and then had extra coverage 
as needed during the week.

I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.   


When I worked with NASA and the Navy on remote locations that needed full time staffing, the rule of thumb was
5 people and 4 shifts was the absolute minimum, and the people had to be motivated enough to pull 12 hour shifts on 
a regular basis (i.e., this
was very bare bones). The 4th shift was needed during the weekends. 

Anything less, and you would have uncovered periods if, say, 2 people got sick simultaneously.

Regards
Marshall


-----Original Message-----
From: harbor235
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:14 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: 365x24x7

If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

thoughts, experience?

Mike







------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:27:32 +0100
From: Alex Brooks <askoorb+nanog () gmail com>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: nanog <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikkVH_yk=97oWgq_A0YLxZ9dxNVXg () mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM, harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

Well, if you feel like being "nice" to your employees, or want to stop
them from making mistakes a few months/years in to shift work, (or if
you're having to set something up abroad), the Working Time Directive
can be a useful guideline.

(Full details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
and http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858926
if you're board, ignore the silly bits)

But basically, in general, workers aged 18 and over are entitled to:

- work no more than six days out of every seven, or 12 out of every 14
- take a 20-minute break if their shift lasts for more than six hours
- work a maximum 48-hour average week

And in general, night workers:

- should not work more than an average of eight hours in a 24-hour
period, averaged over a reference period of 17 weeks

If you're an employer, be glad you're in North America :-)

HTH,

Alex



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:31:48 -0500
From: "Sanders, Randall K" <Randall.K.Sanders () xo com>
Subject: RE: 365x24x7
To: nanog <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID:
     <B0E45381691B4E4188ECEE2507142CFC5C7B3660 () txplanexch01 corp inthosts net>
     
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Have you taken into account number of alarms per hour, inbound call volume for repairs, and how much repair is done 
at the first tier level?  Bare minimum staffing in a busy environment?

Randy Sanders

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Brooks [mailto:askoorb+nanog () gmail com] 
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:28 AM
To: nanog
Subject: Re: 365x24x7

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM, harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

Well, if you feel like being "nice" to your employees, or want to stop
them from making mistakes a few months/years in to shift work, (or if
you're having to set something up abroad), the Working Time Directive
can be a useful guideline.

(Full details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
and http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858926
if you're board, ignore the silly bits)

But basically, in general, workers aged 18 and over are entitled to:

- work no more than six days out of every seven, or 12 out of every 14
- take a 20-minute break if their shift lasts for more than six hours
- work a maximum 48-hour average week

And in general, night workers:

- should not work more than an average of eight hours in a 24-hour
period, averaged over a reference period of 17 weeks

If you're an employer, be glad you're in North America :-)

HTH,

Alex






------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:36:35 +0100
From: Tony Finch <dot () dotat at>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID:
     <alpine.LSU.2.00.1104151530010.19442 () hermes-2 csi cam ac uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:

If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
do I need to fully cover operations?

Hours in the working year  =  8 * 5 * 48 = 1920
Hours in the calendar year = 24 * 7 * 52 = 8736
Ratio                                    = 4.55

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot () dotat at>  http://dotat.at/
Rockall, Malin, Hebrides: South 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 at first in
Rockall and Malin, veering west or northwest 4 or 5, then backing southwest 5
or 6 later. Rough or very rough. Occasional rain. Moderate or good,
occasionally poor.



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:52:02 -0400
From: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinLSBedu3hq8hg4ihjEMcOHHbRjGg () mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Guys,

Thanx alot, there is some great stuff here, also some stuff I had not
thought of.

thanx again,

Mike

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Tony Finch <dot () dotat at> wrote:

harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:

If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
do I need to fully cover operations?

Hours in the working year  =  8 * 5 * 48 = 1920
Hours in the calendar year = 24 * 7 * 52 = 8736
Ratio                                    = 4.55

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot () dotat at>  http://dotat.at/
Rockall, Malin, Hebrides: South 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 at first in
Rockall and Malin, veering west or northwest 4 or 5, then backing southwest
5
or 6 later. Rough or very rough. Occasional rain. Moderate or good,
occasionally poor.



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 05:52:13 -1000
From: Paul Graydon <paul () paulgraydon co uk>
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
To: nanog () nanog org
Message-ID: <4DA869AD.9070202 () paulgraydon co uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 4/15/2011 3:14 AM, harbor235 wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?

thoughts, experience?

Mike

For what it's worth, was part of a datacenter operations department that 
had a 24x7 team.  4 shifts, 4 staff on each shift (1 was supervisor who 
did same work as the rest, 1 'point of contact' who stayed in the office).
4 days on, 4 days off, 12 hour shifts, 8-8.  Shift teams would alternate 
between day and night (so 4 day, 4 off, 4 night, 4 off, repeat ad 
infinitum).  During the day that was bolstered by 6 day-staff, Monday to 
Friday, who would have a staggered start through the day (IIRC 2 start 
at 8, 2 at 9, 2 at 11)



------------------------------

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