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Re: How do you put a TV station on the Mbone?
From: Jay Ashworth <jra () baylink com>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:40:18 -0400 (EDT)

---- Original Message -----
From: "david raistrick" <drais () icantclick org>

1) As a consumer network (enterprise, home) - that case is VERY rare.
50 people consuming it at your house? Or at the office consuming the same
feed? (even at a 10k employee company, the rate of that is fairly low,
particularly on the same leg of the network - I'd love to see some
statistics that prove me wrong). The amount of work that goes into
supporting and maintaining this is much higher than the return I'd get
from it. Even assuming the upstreams supported it.

I'd expect it to be fairly common at colleges; possibly in companies,
depending on the content being watched: live news events are the most
common example -- igmp aware viewer clients (which would bias towaards
this by showing the already running feeds) would also help.

2) as a content provider, there's a lot of extra work involved towards
maintain this with my upstreams, and every mid-stream between me at the
consumer networks. I require specialists in multicast (comparatively speaking
unicast specialists are a dime a dozen) and I have to fight a lot of
politics with the upstreams, and I -still- have to support the unicast
models so the folks who can't consume multicast can see my content.

Is it still this fragile in 2011?

3) as an a midstream network provider I have almost no motivation to
support this. Sure, my network usage would be reduced - but I (more or
less simplified here, but) make my living on each bit of traffic I carry -
if I offered a way for providers and consumers to reduce their traffic,
that would reduce the amount they pay me. Win for them, lose for me.

americafree.tv has a list, compiled (I think) by Marhsall Eubanks, that
lists ISPs and backbones with a formal positive position on this.

Be fun to put you two in a room together.  :-)

the fact of the matter is that until multicast or it's like -doesn't-
require massive end-to-end support (and frequently configuration to
support each stream), there won't be heavy use of it. When I can turn
up a multicast stream as easily as I can turn up a unicast stream,
there is -still- a absolute lack of client-side software to recieve and
playback the streams, and very limited support for broadcasting the streams.

Clearly, there's not an *absolute* lack, or people wouldn't be using it
for anything anywhere ever, which they demonstrably are.

I should think that given Flowplayer, there's a pretty good platform for
implementing such a player in the environment in which program providers
would want to use it... though I'm not intimately familiar with its code.

...david (one time multicast specialist supporting a 200,000 seat 4
channel multicast infrastructure, so I'm fully aware of what magic is
really involved in maintaining it across divergent networks that -WE-
owned (or could exercise control of). before that streaming 40Gb/s
(~200 channels of unicast video for general consumers + on demand streams)

And you haven't written the O'Reilly book yet... why?  :-)

Thanks for the input, David.

-- jra

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