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Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 37
From: "Henault, Ken" <ken.henault () hp com>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 00:57:26 +0100





Ken Henault
senior infrastructure architect
enterprise solutions & architecture
e-mail: bladeguy () hp com
phone: 603-421-2852
twitter: @bladeguy



________________________________
On Aug 10, 2011 7:47 PM, nanog-request () nanog org <nanog-request () nanog org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: network issue help (Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu)
   2. Re: network issue help (Dan White)
   3. Re: network issue help (Chaim Rieger)
   4. Re: IPv6 end user addressing (Owen DeLong)
   5. Re: network issue help (Jason Biel)
   6. RE: network issue help (Brandon Kim)
   7. Re: IPv6 end user addressing (Owen DeLong)
   8. Re: network issue help (Tammy A. Wisdom)
   9. Re: network issue help (Stefan Fouant)
  10. Re: network issue help (Garrett Skjelstad)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:54:31 -0400
From: Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu
To: Tim Vollebregt <tim () interworx nl>
Cc: nanog list <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <39602.1313013271 () turing-police cc vt edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:37:04 +0200, Tim Vollebregt said:
http://www.amazon.com/Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470534052

Here you go..

Oh, and he wants to read this helpful guide by Eric S. Raymond, too:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Deric doesn't know he wants to.. but he *wants* to. *Right Now*. :)
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:09:17 -0500
From: Dan White <dwhite () olp net>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu
Cc: nanog list <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <20110810220917.GH4565 () dan olp net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

On 10/08/11?17:54?-0400, Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu wrote:
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:37:04 +0200, Tim Vollebregt said:
http://www.amazon.com/Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470534052

Here you go..

Oh, and he wants to read this helpful guide by Eric S. Raymond, too:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Deric doesn't know he wants to.. but he *wants* to. *Right Now*. :)

And along similar lines - "How to Report Bugs Effectively":

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

--
Dan White



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:15:41 -0700
From: Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger () gmail com>
To: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <4E43030D.3050505 () gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

replied inline, with a summary below

On 8/10/2011 2:35 PM, Deric Kwok wrote:
Hi

There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.
 From this i take is that you are using the avaya networking gear with
the fcoe protocol enabled, this is a big no-no. you need to disable
ipsec, then enable dns, your connection should come right back

ls it about lop ing?
it is not about lops at all, nor is it about looping, its all about the
trees dude, there is a hidder feature called, treehugger protocol. and
this will help prevent looping in the long term, its hidden behind the
power chord, unplug the power cable from your switch, and you will see
it between the three prongs. no that you can see this, test for
excessive looping

How can I check it in switch?
if the step above failed, i would take the cable that is plugged into
port 7 of your switch and plug the other end into port 13, it might
help, i would also leave in there for a while, and go grab a cup of coffee

ls spammingtree disable by default?
only if there are branches

Thank you so much
welcome






------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:33:20 -0700
From: Owen DeLong <owen () delong com>
To: Scott Helms <khelms () ispalliance net>
Cc: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: IPv6 end user addressing
Message-ID: <48838ED8-1C06-493E-8FA5-5BBB96873BD8 () delong com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

There is some deployable technology that allows some aspects of this today.
Yes, it's in its infancy. Small prefix limitations will guarantee it never sees the
light of day just as NAT precluded many useful innovations from getting deployed.

Layer 3 isolation is only isolation by agreement if the hosts have some way
to get on the same physical or logical LAN layer 2 segment. Otherwise, layer 3
isolation is as effective as any firewall. Layer 2 isolation, OTOH, is both
harder to administer and no more effective than layer 3. If you can bypass layer 3
by connecting to the same LAN segment, chances are you can bypass layer 2
by making that LAN segment one which doesn't go through the enforcement
switch between the two devices in question.

Owen

On Aug 10, 2011, at 8:11 AM, Scott Helms wrote:

Neither of these are true, though in the future we _might_ have deployable technology that allows for automated 
routing setup (though I very seriously doubt it) in the home.  Layer 2 isolation is both easier and more reliable 
than attempting it at layer 3 which is isolation by agreement, i.e. it doesn't really exist.

On 8/10/2011 9:02 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:

Bridging eliminates the multicast isolation that you get from routing.

This is not a case for bridging, it's a case for making it possible to do real
routing in the home and we now have the space and the technology to
actually do it in a meaningful and sufficiently automatic way as to be
applicable to Joe 6-Mac.


--
Scott Helms
Vice President of Technology
ISP Alliance, Inc. DBA ZCorum
(678) 507-5000
--------------------------------
http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
--------------------------------





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:51:52 -0500
From: Jason Biel <jason () biel-tech com>
To: Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger () gmail com>
Cc: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID:
        <CAGpNY1Hmwo9Aj1v0rq5GEWS6X-bY5==2xpn5LhfdDGhAwyO6gA () mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

TBH, this thread has made the hour preceding my Juniper upgrades *way* more
enjoyable.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger () gmail com>wrote:

replied inline, with a summary below


On 8/10/2011 2:35 PM, Deric Kwok wrote:

Hi

There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.

From this i take is that you are using the avaya networking gear with the
fcoe protocol enabled, this is a big no-no. you need to disable ipsec, then
enable dns, your connection should come right back


ls it about lop ing?

it is not about lops at all, nor is it about looping, its all about the
trees dude, there is a hidder feature called, treehugger protocol. and this
will help prevent looping in the long term, its hidden behind the power
chord, unplug the power cable from your switch, and you will see it between
the three prongs. no that you can see this, test for excessive looping


How can I check it in switch?

if the step above failed, i would take the cable that is plugged into port
7 of your switch and plug the other end into port 13, it might help, i would
also leave in there for a while, and go grab a cup of coffee


ls spammingtree disable by default?

only if there are branches


Thank you so much

welcome








--
Jason


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:10:59 -0400
From: Brandon Kim <brandon.kim () brandontek com>
To: <leigh.porter () ukbroadband com>, <jason () biel-tech com>
Cc: nanog group <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: RE: network issue help
Message-ID: <BLU158-W44F0E2714A23615FA51E8DDC230 () phx gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


haha! Spammingtree! I love it!!!





From: leigh.porter () ukbroadband com
To: jason () biel-tech com
Subject: Re: network issue help
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:50:27 +0000
CC: nanog () nanog org

I just wish spammingtree was on by default.

--
Leigh Porter


On 10 Aug 2011, at 22:47, "Jason Biel" <jason () biel-tech com> wrote:

Is it to the point where I can just forward the emails from help desk to
NANOG so I don't have to answer them?

Biel

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:39 PM, -Hammer- <bhmccie () gmail com> wrote:

LOL

-Hammer-

"I was a normal American nerd"
-Jack Herer




On 08/10/2011 04:37 PM, Tim Vollebregt wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/**Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/**dp/0470534052<http://www.amazon.com/Networking-Dummies-Doug-Lowe/dp/0470534052>

Here you go..
On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:35 PM, Deric Kwok wrote:



Hi

There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.

ls it about lop ing?

How can I check it in switch?

ls spammingtree disable by default?

Thank you so much









--
Jason

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:12:31 -0700
From: Owen DeLong <owen () delong com>
To: Jeff Wheeler <jsw () inconcepts biz>
Cc: NANOG <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: IPv6 end user addressing
Message-ID: <1F6C0D3C-320E-4D72-BF41-C8796707B932 () delong com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Jeff Wheeler wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Owen DeLong <owen () delong com> wrote:
That said, /48 to the home should be what is happening, and /56 is
a better compromise than anything smaller.

Is hierarchical routing within the SOHO network the reason you believe
/48 is useful?  You don't really imagine that end-users will require
more than 2^8 subnets, but that they will want several levels of very
simple, nibble-aligned routers within their network?


Not necessarily nibble aligned, but, multiple bits per level, yes.

This is perhaps a good discussion to have.  I, for one, see CPE
vendors still shipping products without IPv6 support at all, let alone
any mechanism for creating an address or routing hierarchy within the
home without the end-user configuring it himself.  I am not aware of
any automatic means to do this, or even any working group trying to
produce that feature.


If we are stingy in address allocations, it will stifle such innovations as
the vendors tend to develop to the lowest common denominator. If we
make the allocations available, innovative ideas will make use of them.

Is it true that there is no existing work on this?  If that is the
case, why would we not try to steer any such future work in such a way
that it can manage to do what the end-user wants without requiring a
/48 in their home?


No, it is not true.

I suppose that limiting enough households to too small an allocation
will have that effect. I would rather we steer the internet deployment
towards liberal enough allocations to avoid such disability for the
future.

Have we learned nothing from the way NAT shaped the (lack of)
innovation in the home?

Owen




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:26:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Tammy A. Wisdom" <tammy-lists () wiztech biz>
To: Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 () gmail com>
Cc: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID:
        <0fcdc524-3ac8-419f-8e79-821c69ad364e () lordsofacid wiztech biz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

solution: quit smoking crack.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Deric Kwok" <deric.kwok2000 () gmail com>
To: "nanog list" <nanog () nanog org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:35:18 PM
Subject: network issue help

Hi

There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.

ls it about lop ing?

How can I check it in switch?

ls spammingtree disable by default?

Thank you so much





------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:33:53 -0400
From: Stefan Fouant <sfouant () shortestpathfirst net>
To: Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 () gmail com>
Cc: nanog list <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID:
        <8AEC36A4-45BB-49F6-8C86-02404F31D1C1 () shortestpathfirst net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Is there an acronym for RTFM when there are a volume of manuals that need to be read?

Stefan Fouant
JNCIE-M, JNCIE-ER, JNCIE-SEC, JNCI
Technical Trainer, Juniper Networks
http://www.shortestpathfirst.net
http://www.twitter.com/sfouant

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 10, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 () gmail com> wrote:

Hi

There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.

ls it about lop ing?

How can I check it in switch?

ls spammingtree disable by default?

Thank you so much




------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:47:10 -0700
From: Garrett Skjelstad <garrett () skjelstad org>
To: Stefan Fouant <sfouant () shortestpathfirst net>
Cc: nanog list <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: network issue help
Message-ID: <CAEE2529-0E64-4854-8B97-A22DB7ED5A10 () skjelstad org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Yea, it's T2SP or Time to Switch Professions...

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2011, at 16:33, Stefan Fouant <sfouant () shortestpathfirst net> wrote:

Is there an acronym for RTFM when there are a volume of manuals that need to be read?

Stefan Fouant
JNCIE-M, JNCIE-ER, JNCIE-SEC, JNCI
Technical Trainer, Juniper Networks
http://www.shortestpathfirst.net
http://www.twitter.com/sfouant

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 10, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Deric Kwok <deric.kwok2000 () gmail com> wrote:

Hi

There is problem in our network. The connection is disappearing.

ls it about lop ing?

How can I check it in switch?

ls spammingtree disable by default?

Thank you so much





End of NANOG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 37
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