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Re: Common operational misconceptions
From: -Hammer- <bhmccie () gmail com>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:46:13 -0600

Well said. An American tragedy.


"I was a normal American nerd"
-Jack Herer

On 2/17/2012 9:01 AM, Brandt, Ralph wrote:
Hammer, you are at least 75% right.  You will get flamed and in most
cases, the 35 year age is close to right.

But then in Programming where I spent most of my IT time since Feb 1963,
few current programmers have skills that they need to be really
successful.  Same thing.

It is the fault of the educational system like one school district here
that teaches Alice, VB and then two days of C++ to High School Kids.
Heck, they will fiddle with Alice on their own.  They need some exposure
to one of the SQL's and how to build some tables, maybe a good script
language, some command line on SQL+ and unix or PostgresSQL and linux if
the school can't afford the unix licenses.

The fun and games is more important than the substance and it goes into
the colleges in spades.

BTW, I am a school board member who votes 1:8 often on things.... But
let me give you a perspective, one of the board members called Golf an
"Essential Life Skill."  Maybe, but how about balancing a checkbook...

Ralph Brandt
Communications Engineer
HP Enterprise Services
Telephone +1 717.506.0802
FAX +1 717.506.4358
Email Ralph.Brandt () pateam com
5095 Ritter Rd
Mechanicsburg PA 17055

-----Original Message-----
From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie () gmail com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:52 AM
To: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: Common operational misconceptions

Let me simplify that. If you are over 35 you know how to troubleshoot.

Yes, I'm going to get flamed. Yes, there are exceptions in both


"I was a normal American nerd"
-Jack Herer

On 2/17/2012 8:29 AM, Leo Bicknell wrote:
In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 08:50:11PM -1000, Paul
Graydon wrote:
At the same time, it's shocking how many network people I come across
with no real grasp of even what OSI means by each layer, even if it's
only in theory.  Just having a grasp of that makes all the world of
difference when it comes to troubleshooting.  Start at layer 1 and
upwards (unless you're able to make appropriate intuitive leaps.) Is
physically connected? Are the link lights flashing? Can traffic route
it, etc. etc.
I wouldn't call it a "misconception", but I want to echo Paul's
comment.  I would venture over 90% of the engineers I work with
have no idea how to troubleshoot properly.  Thinking back to my own
education, I don't recall anyone in highschool or college attempting
to teach troubleshooting skills.  Most classes teach you how to
build things, not deal with them when they are broken.

The basic skills are probably obvious to someone who might design
course material if they sat down and thought about how to teach
troubleshooting.  However, there is one area that may not be obvious.
There's also a group management problem.  Many times troubleshooting
is done with multiple folks on the phone (say, customer, ISP and
vendor).  Not only do you have to know how to troubleshoot, but how
to get everyone on the same page so every possible cause isn't
tested 3 times.

I think all college level courses should include a "break/fix"
exercise/module after learning how to build something, and much of
should be done in a group enviornment.

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