Home page logo

nanog logo nanog mailing list archives

Re: Caps (was Re: AT&T UVERSE Native IPv6, a HOWTO)
From: Mark Radabaugh <mark () amplex net>
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:39:01 -0500

On 12/9/13 2:03 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
On Dec 9, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Jay Ashworth <jra () baylink com> wrote:

It costs you nothing to let people use capacity that would otherwise go
to waste, and it increases the perceived value of your service. Your
customers will eventually find themselves depending on that excess
capacity often enough that at least some will be willing to pay you
more to guarantee that it'll be there when they really want it.

We've forgotten the Committed Information Rate already?

I think the challenge here is that RF doesn't scale similarly to other mediums.

Cost per bit-mile on fiber is really low compared to RF.

If you assume 10G-LR optics (10km) @ $299 *2 (pair) + Cvt-5002sfp ($500*2)

is around $0.16/Mbit

RF (cheap) NB-5G25 = $95*2 (pair) is around $3.16/Mbit (assuming 60Mb/s unidirectional) or almost 20x the cost, 
assuming 40Mhz channel and spectrum available.

While fiber installation can be expensive, one needs to ask the local municipalities to install extra conduit every 
time the earth is broken for a local project.

- Jared


It's a lot worse on RF if you want to be able to scale to >100 customers per tower site. Ubiquiti gear (NB-5G25) is dirt cheap but doesn't scale. To make it work with any kind of customer density you need Cambium, Radwin, Redline, or a manufacturer who has GPS sync working properly. 70Mb = $3000 (AP + Sector antenna) + 400 (client equipment) for about $48.50/Mbit.

LTE is significantly higher given base station cost and spectrum licensing.

Letting customers use 'idle' bandwidth is great in theory but in practice it has a few problems. We have experience with this as we have allowed our users to burst to maximum available speed for many years.

a) Customers become acclimated to burst speed. Customers complain bitterly if the speed test that used to say 20Mb now says 6Mb even though they are paying for 3.5Mb. The provider is obviously an evil bastard and gouging them while overloading the towers.

b) Streaming video doesn't always deal well with changing speeds. Netflix essentially runs a speed test at the start of the stream to decide on a resolution. If it picks HD and then reaches the sustained limit (or in this model other users start requesting CIR bandwidth) Netflix does not always gracefully back down and results in a buffering or 'your connection has slowed' message.

c) Trying to explain 'burst' to customers is difficult at best. Leaky bucket policers / CIR / etc. confuse engineers. Good luck getting Grandma to understand it.

We regularly get customers who are confused between 5Mbps (our plans) and 5GB (cell phone plans). It's not unusual to lose a customer to a 'faster 5GB LTE connection for $40/mo' from a uncapped 5Mbps $54.95 service plan. It's really not surprising when you hear back from them 2 months later when they get a $400 bill from VerizaTT. I really like the new cell company game - no overage fees for the first 60 days, and you have 30 days to cancel your 2 year service plan if you don't like it.


Mark Radabaugh

mark () amplex net  419.837.5015 x 1021

  By Date           By Thread  

Current thread:
[ Nmap | Sec Tools | Mailing Lists | Site News | About/Contact | Advertising | Privacy ]