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Re: why IPv6 isn't ready for prime time, SMTP edition
From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 00:17:19 -0400

On Mar 30, 2014, at 16:40 , Måns Nilsson <mansaxel () besserwisser org> wrote:
Subject: Re: why IPv6 isn't ready for prime time, SMTP edition Date: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:06:11AM -0400 Quoting 
Patrick W. Gilmore (patrick () ianai net):
On Mar 29, 2014, at 3:15, Måns Nilsson <mansaxel () besserwisser org> wrote:
Quoting John R. Levine (johnl () iecc com):
Ergo, ad hominem. Please quit doing that.
As a side note I happen to run my own mail server without spam filters
-- it works for me. I might not be the norm, but then again, is there
really a norm? (A norm that transcends SMTP RFC reach, that is --

I know a lot of people who run a lot of mail systems, and let's just
say you're so far out in the long tail we need a telescope to see

I will not debate with people who resort to humiliation techniques
when questioned.

I will not argue whether you were humiliated as that is something only you can decide.

The puny attempt at "master suppression technique"[0]  was identified
as such and countermeasures were launched. No damage done.

I was serious. Your reaction .. well, I shouldn't say anything more lest you call me puny again. (What were you saying 
about humiliation techniques? Glad to see you would never be hypocritical.)

However, John was still factually correct. No big deal, lots of people are humiliated by facts. Although I admit I 
didn't find the quote above terribly humiliating myself. 

You have a point. Further, I do not debate the truth in the statement. My
personal email system IS small -- I did even state that -- but that does
not mean I do not run larger systems for others, nor does it mean that
the general public should dismiss my ideas and only listen to people
who brag about their acquaintances.  There are other much more compelling
reasons not to do as I say. 

You misunderstand. Or perhaps I did?

I read John's statement to be in reference to your stance, i.e. running without spam filters. Not that your server is 

John can clarify if he likes. But either way, running without spam filters is beyond unusual these days.

My personal server is run with very few filters, all of which REJECT or accept and send to a box I read. I have no 
"spam folder". So while I am not as far down the tail as you are, I am definitely out of the mainstream. The only 
reason I mention that is so you don't go researching for another reason to "identify" my comments as anything except 
exactly what they say.

Also, realize that John has already done more to stop spam in his career then you and your thousand closest friends 
ever will. (E.g. Look up abuse.net.) Again not humiliation, just a fact.

Feel free to plonk me as well. I won't be humiliated. :-)

I won't. There is a clear divide between politely pointing out facts
and abusing facts to tell people that their opinion does not matter.

And, for the record, I do not support spamming in any form. But the
mitigation techniques MUST NOT impose undue constraints on the legitimate
use of e-mail, even when it is not vetted by passing it through big
insecure monitored US webmail providers.

I like your use of MUST.

However, I think you'll find your definition of "undue" and most of the rest of the Internet's is vastly different.


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