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From: niceshorts () yahoo com
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:54:34 -0500

Ofir Arkin hat geschrieben:

Imagine there is no spoon.

    There is no spoon. It is your mind that bends. :)

What you can do is to test for firewall presence. This is a very simple
test that will give you the ability to understand what you facing. 
One nice added value for the auditor will be the ability to identify the
operating system the FW software will be installed on, given the fact
the firewall TCP/IP stack generates these lovely RSTs. Another thing
that the auditor might gain is the understanding that he is dealing with
several systems and not only with the one he is querying - looking at
the traces will result in identifying at least two systems which
communicate with his machine although he is targeting one.

    Yes. This is an issue all operators or auditors need to
    consider: On the one hand, we wish to limit reconnaissance
    activity. Let us not leak information like so many U.S.
    Congressmen. On the other hand, the security of a firewall
    ought not be dependent on the obscurity of its TCP/IP stack.

    I find no simple answer fits every scenario.

    I do urge, however, if one is attempting to "stealthen" a
    firewall, one will have to remember that TTL decrementation
    still takes place. The FreeBSD kernel IPFW implementation
    *used*[0] to have the option to not subtract from TTL. If one
    doesn't mind playing havoc with traceroute, this, too, may be
    an option.

    -anthony kim

    [0] I have not been following IPFW in 4.4 or 5.0-CURRENT so
    can't speak definitively.

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