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RE: Ethical Hacking Training
From: "rob" <loki () act-itls com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:34:03 +1100

Ok here is my spin on this whole thing as a trainer and engineer (geek).
When I was working as a account manager at a IT training company here in
australia, I was approached by several security training companies to
recommend their courses to my clients. I ended up asking the same
questions to every different company that came along.  Only one gave me
responses that I was happy with.

        When requested they provided the resume of their trainers,
courseware      developers and the ceo.
        When requested they have provided sample modules of the course
content         and 
        They were more then happy to provide contacts for locations of
previous courses and/or clients
        
         But unfortunately the company that I worked for does not exist
any more, well that is the training industry isn't it.  So I have
started up a small training arm of the company that I work for now.  I
will be using the only security training company that I was happy with
when I was an account manager/trainer.  
        
        
Robert Ryan
Senior Security Engineer & Technical Trainer
ABC Soup available on request
 

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-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Cuff [Talisker] [mailto:lists () securitywizardry com] 
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2004 8:56 AM
To: Rob Shein; pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Ethical Hacking Training

Hi Rob,
I've seen something related this week, where a different up and coming
training company were insisting that their training must be good because
Intelligence Organisation X and Military Unit Y had used them in the
past.
When in reality the attendees probably just fell on the course through
Google or preferably my site ;o)
I explained to the salesman that we would want to evaluate the course
and
that if the course was as good as he claimed there would be no harm in
providing the eval course for free as we would have to come back for
more.
Needless to say he said no, which made me suspicious.

In all seriousness in order to evaluate such a course fully you have to
send
someone who has already attended at least one such course previously so
that
you have a benchmark from which to base the evaluation on.  I try to
explain
to the providers that as a customer I'm already losing a guy for a week,
paying for their accommodation for knowledge my guy most probably
already
possesses.  You can also suggest to the provider that whoever attends
the
course provide substantial constructive feedback (sing for their supper)
I
can understand a providers reticence where you evaluate a course by
sending
a newbie
.
If all that fails and you still can't get a freebie ask if you can
attend a
future beta tests of  major revisions of the course you wish to attend.
Or
other courses offered so that you can at least test the facilities and
knowledge of the instructors.

Talisker Security Tools Directory
http://www.securitywizardry.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Shein" <shoten () starpower net>
To: "'Andy Cuff [Talisker]'" <lists () securitywizardry com>;
<pen-test () securityfocus com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: Ethical Hacking Training


One thing to watch out for is something Foundstone did at one point.
They
took note of the companies from which everyone came, and eventually
ran a
rather large advertisement which named every company that in any way
competed with them, which further insinuated that these companies only
knew
what they knew from attending Foundstone training.  I know this
because
the
company I worked for at the time was named; one of our people had
attended
a
seminar out of curiosity (he was let go as a result).



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