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RE: Ethical Hacking Training
From: "Don Parker" <dparker () rigelksecurity com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:19:38 -0500 (EST)

The biggest thing I find is that people have unrealistic expectations. Bottom line is 
that it takes a lot of time to learn all the various topics that constitute what the 
average hacker knows. I encounter this mindset all the time with the people I have 
trained. They wonder why after 4 or 5 days they are not at the same level I am at. Quite 
simply put because for every day I have taught them I have spent a full year studying 
and learning. 

A good example of this is SANS actually. They do a better job then most at teaching 
imho. The problem is though that over the course of 6 days you are learning an 
incredible amount of information. Then you have 6 months to certify if you so choose. My 
thoughts on this prove me correct. Look at the amount of track attendee's vice certified 
people. To sum up gaining knowledge is no easy task, and simply put takes time.


Don Parker, GCIA
Intrusion Detection Specialist
Rigel Kent Security & Advisory Services Inc
ph :613.249.8340

On Jan 19, "Pete Herzog" <pete () isecom org> wrote:


As a person who has begun to provide training on security testing and
analysis, this is tough spot for me as well.

The truth is the public buys hacking classes.  That's all there is to it.
And the more flashy and exploity and thrilling the better because that's
what the people buy.

But as people want more and more in their 5 days and they want to see
hacking exploits, you can expect the money will continue to flow to the
hucksters who solicit their wares the best.  Funny thing though is that this
is happening with almost every facet of security.  Training is no different.

I really have no plans to take our trainings down that road.  But it's a
fight every time with people who think ISECOM should be mainstream.


Pete Herzog, Managing Director
Institute for Security and Open Methodologies
www.isecom.org - www.osstmm.org
www.hackerhighschool.org - www.isestorm.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Parker [mailto:dparker () rigelksecurity com]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 00:57 AM
To: Andy Cuff [Talisker]; Rob Shein; pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Ethical Hacking Training

Evening gentlemen/ladies, this is one sore spot for me. These
"Ethical Hacking" courses
and others along this vein. These vendors need to be far more
clear, as to exactly what a
student will come away with, and what they should have knowledge
wise prior to attending.
I recently sent some feedback to Information Security Magazine in
regards to their
Technical Editor's take on one such course, (and the technical
errors in his column).  The
problem is that the security industry as a whole is becoming one
big money machine.

These courses are giving people unrealistic expectations of what
they will know after one
of these 1 week courses. Nothing wrong with trying to make a
dollar, but one should be
honest as well in the process. It is doing a great disservice to
the industry as a whole
to make people think that they will be a "hacker" after a 1 week
course. It should be
clearly stated that these courses are but an introduction into
the world of the true
hacker. It will be up to the student to make of it what they
will, and then build upon it.
Showing people what "Ethical Hacking" is all about is a laudable
goal. The thing is we
must not forget our own ethics along the way to doing so in
pursuit of the almight dollar.



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