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Re: Passwords with Lan Manager (LM) under Windows
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor () hammerofgod com>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:18:44 -0700

No need to look... I'm quite familiar with Urity's work ;) He spoke just before I did at a Blackhat conference a while back... We had dinner together (I think that was then... Rika translated for us...) and discussed it a bit.

The presentation at BH Windows 2002 is more relevant than Tokyo, actually... In 2004 he discussed the NTLM2 response key-- that is not the same as the NTLMv2 challenge/response exchange... I may tend to be a bit pedantic sometimes, but I think it is important to be accurate when discussing security matters, particularly in the realm of authentication protocols. Since you said "NTLMv2" broke the hash into "chunks," I thought it proper to correct that statement. NTLMv2's challenges and responses are all 128 bit, linear keys.

t



----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au> To: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor () hammerofgod com>; <pand0ra.usa () gmail com>; <pen-test () securityfocus com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: RE: Passwords with Lan Manager (LM) under Windows



The session response key

Have a look at
http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-asia-04/bh-jp-04-pdfs/bh-jp-04-
seki.pdf

About page 35-40 give or take from memory

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor () hammerofgod com]
Sent: 22 September 2005 12:00
To: Craig Wright; pand0ra.usa () gmail com; pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Passwords with Lan Manager (LM) under Windows


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
To: <pand0ra.usa () gmail com>; <pen-test () securityfocus com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Passwords with Lan Manager (LM) under Windows


Even NTLMv2  will break the hashing into chunks which are able to be
individually broken down.

I'm not sure what you mean... NTLMv2 uses a single 128bit key for the
hash,
challenge and response...  Or are you referring to the NTLM2 session
response key (56+56+16)? If so, that is not the same thing as NTLMv2...
Can
you elaborate please ?

t




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