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Re: Password "security" - was"Passwords with Lan Manager (LM) under Windows" and "Whitespace in passwords"
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor () hammerofgod com>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:54:55 -0700

Just a side note-- if you are using the password-on-boot feature, make sure you take that into account when considering unattended power-cycles, restarts, power failures, or other reboot events that may occur when no personnel are on site to enter the password. That's an easy to DOS yourself if you are not thinking about it. That's why the key-on-floppy is available (make sure your BIOS is not set to boot from floppy first) but if your main concern is lost or stolen resources, that may not really help you that much unless you keep the floppy out of the unit, thus re-introducing the self-imposed DOS issue again.

(Note that if any of the systems are (heaven forbid) NT4, that Microsoft has a hotfix for SYSKEY'd SAMs to fix keystream re-use in the SAM encryption that makes offline cracking easier. KB248183.)

You really need to weigh the risks of an unattended reboot DOSing you or that of a box being "lost or stolen." I can't see how a box could get lost, but if it's stolen, you'll be resetting all the passwords anyway... Which way to go is really up to how much of a propensity each given even is likely to occur...

t


----- Original Message ----- From: "Dufresne, Pierre" <PIERRE.DUFRESNE () MESS GOUV QC CA>
To: <pen-test () securityfocus com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: Password "security" - was"Passwords with Lan Manager (LM) under Windows" and "Whitespace in passwords"



I hope everybody following this thread is aware that whether any version of a cracking tool can crack or not non-printable characters is irrelevant. If
it can't, the authors could probably patch their tool very fast.

As someone mentioned earlier, the game is now: how do you protect the hashes
when a computer is lost or stolen?

I work in a Windows environment. The only immediate measure I can think of
is the use of SYSKEY with a password prompt.
Could anyone provide me with other simple solution?  Thanks


Note to moderator: may be it would be better to start a new thread with a
subject like "hashes protection in Windows"
Thanks

Pierre

Hi Dave,

Lepton's Crack can, for sure. I dunno if the version with non-printable
characters is 20040914 or 20040916 (the later is not online, I'm afraid, I
have it on a CD somewhere).
Just had a look at the CHANGES file:>

20040914/
- Added support for any ASCII character (ie. also non-printable) in
  the charset and regex definition, via \0(octal), \x(hex),
\(decimal)

Do a Google search for

password cracker "non printable" characters

And have fun collating the results.
Cheers,

Miguel


-----Original Message-----
From: dave kleiman [mailto:dave () isecureu com]
Sent: 26 September 2005 15:00
To: 'Miguel Dilaj'
Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com
.Subject: RE: Password "security" - was"Passwords with Lan Manager (LM)
under
Windows" and "Whitespace in passwords"



Regarding "Whitespace in passwords", and as some people already
mentioned, modern password cracking software (both commercial and
free) can find non-printable chars, so space or ALT-whatever are going
to be found anyway. Rainbow tables now tend to include space, but I
still haven't heard of anyone producing a table for 0x00-0xff
(0x0000-0xffff if you use extended unicode chars ;-)
Applications CAN be broken by using strange characters, so YMMV.



Can you provide a list of those that have that ability, I will gladly test
them.

The most popular ones cannot i.e. L0pht, Cain etc. See:
http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/88/312263


Dave


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