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RE: Business justification for pentesting
From: "Vic N" <vic778 () hotmail com>
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:13:00 -0700

I neverr said a pen test was going to address every PCI requirement, I'm not sure how you are reading that into my response. It is but one requirement of the PCI specification. There are many requirements for a tier one merchant/service provider. The original question was about justifying a pen-test.


Hi

Further to this... I would like to know how 11.5 of the PCI is going to
be completed using a Pen Test.

11.5    Deploy file integrity monitoring to alert personnel to
unauthorized modification of critical system or content files, and
perform critical file comparisons at least daily (or more frequently if
the process can be automated).

The verification process needs to:
11.5 Verify the use of file integrity monitoring products by observing
system settings and monitored files, as well as reviewing results from
monitoring activities.

Further.. External Pen Testing alone is not acceptable

11.2 Run internal and external network vulnerability scans at least
quarterly and after any significant change in the network (e.g., new
system component installations, changes in network topology, firewall
rule modifications, product upgrades).

I would love to see any Pen test which could blindly test #8.5.12...

8.5.12 Do not allow an individual to submit a new password that is the
same as any of the last four passwords he or she has used.

And the list goes on and on.

The issue is WHY is there a pen test? For this we look at point 11.4
(directly after 11.3)

The requirements are;
11.4 Use network intrusion detection systems, host-based intrusion
detection systems, and/or intrusion prevention systems to monitor all
network traffic and alert personnel to suspected compromises. Keep all
intrusion detection and prevention engines up-to-date.

And the Summary Test procedure is;
11.4    Observe the use of network intrusion detection and/or prevention
software on the network. Confirm IDS and/or IPS is in place to monitor
and alert personnel of suspected compromises. Examine IDS/IPS
configurations and confirm IDS/IPS devices are configured, maintained,
and updated per vendor instructions to ensure optimal protection.

Basically the Pen Test is an additional layer of verification on the
other 46 pages worth of requirements and tests, and it is not even a
quarter of one of the pages.

11.2a in fact states a single test is not adequate;

11.2.a Inspect output from the most recent four quarters of network,
host, and application vulnerability scans to verify that periodic
security testing of the devices within the cardholder environment
occurs. Confirm the scan process includes rescans until "clean" results
are obtained.

Clean results being "The results of each scan satisfy the PCI Security
Scanning Procedures (e.g., no urgent, critical, or high
vulnerabilities."

Craig

PS I know the PCI Security Audit Procedures intimately as BDO is on the
list of authorised/approved auditors and I have a copy and have
published papers on this topic.


-----Original Message-----
From: Vic N [mailto:vic778 () hotmail com]
Sent: 3 September 2005 8:10
To: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Business justification for pentesting

11.3 of the PCI 1.0 applies to tier 1 merchants (per a Visa-approved
auditor).  A comprehensive onsite review can include a pen-test
component, and hence, meet the annual requirement, but the onsite
assessment is not a pen-test perse.  Additionally, a pen-test is
required after any major changes to the environment.

Test procedures from this requirement (PCI 1.0 spec):

"Obtain results from the most recent penetration test to verify that
penetration testing is performed at least annually and after any
significant changes to the environment. Confirm that any noted
vulnerabilities were corrected."

Vic



>
>This is for a small visa processing site where a full audit is not
>required.
>
>This can not be used as a blanket statement. For larger PCI clients and

>issuers, an onsite audit (which is extremely detailed if done
>correctly) must be completed
>
>Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vic N [mailto:vic778 () hotmail com]
>Sent: 1 September 2005 9:04
>To: sectraq () gmail com; pen-test () securityfocus com
>Subject: RE: Business justification for pentesting
>
>For Visa / MC PCI 1.0 specification (requirement 11.3), an annual pen
>test of network infrastructure and applications must take place once a
>year w/remediation.
>
>www.visa.com/cisp (see PCI data security standard)
>
> >hi all,
> >
> >a few classic question that i would appriciate any answers for.
> >1- i would like to briefly know how to quantify information assets.
> >In other words, i hear a pentester say: if a hacker breaks in ur
> >network, u will loose up to 40000$ for example. how can he come up
> >with such
>figures?
> >
> >2- are there any other means to justify pentesting for management
> >except for $$$?
> >
> >3- are there any official statistics, figures etc. for justifying
> >pentesting. ther more official it is the better.
> >
> >4- any other information you guys might find helpful in justifying a
> >pentest would be appriciated.
> >
> >thnx in advance for ur help.
> >
> >T.N
> >
>
>
>
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------
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Hackers are concentrating their efforts on attacking applications on
your website. Up to 75% of cyber attacks are launched on shopping carts,
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servers are futile against web application hacking. Check your website
for vulnerabilities to SQL injection, Cross site scripting and other web
attacks before hackers do!
Download Trial at:

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Audit your website security with Acunetix Web Vulnerability Scanner: Hackers are concentrating their efforts on attacking applications on your website. Up to 75% of cyber attacks are launched on shopping carts, forms, login pages, dynamic content etc. Firewalls, SSL and locked-down servers are futile against web application hacking. Check your website for vulnerabilities to SQL injection, Cross site scripting and other web attacks before hackers do! Download Trial at:

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