Home page logo
/

pen-test logo Penetration Testing mailing list archives

Re: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
From: "Magdelin Tey" <crux80 () hotmail com>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 11:20:28 +1000

i agree, most of the time VA scanners are quite unreliable. especially in reporting web vulnerabilities. They do most of the banner grabbing, hence, it is important for the security tester to have the experience and knowledge to identify which are false positives.

For me, Pen Test, takes a more creative approach compared to VA. does not only attempt to exploit the vulnerabilities found from scanners but also to try other methods such as social engineering, trial and error, etc.

Just my 2 cents as well



From: xelerated <xelerated () gmail com>
To: "Richard Feist" <richard () bluesec net>
CC: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:12:56 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from outgoing.securityfocus.com ([205.206.231.27]) by bay0-mc3-f16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:04:06 -0700 Received: from outgoing.securityfocus.com by outgoing.securityfocus.com via smtpd (for bay0-mc3-f.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.244.72]) with ESMTP; Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:57:26 -0700 Received: from lists.securityfocus.com (lists.securityfocus.com [205.206.231.19])by outgoing3.securityfocus.com (Postfix) with QMQPid 661DC23725B; Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:59:53 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 17515 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2006 16:12:05 -0000
X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt1vXXMXjeS8RXfZk7X8+Uqx3lCeIFthbVc=
Mailing-List: contact pen-test-help () securityfocus com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
List-Id: <pen-test.list-id.securityfocus.com>
List-Post: <mailto:pen-test () securityfocus com>
List-Help: <mailto:pen-test-help () securityfocus com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pen-test-unsubscribe () securityfocus com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:pen-test-subscribe () securityfocus com>
Delivered-To: mailing list pen-test () securityfocus com
Delivered-To: moderator for pen-test () securityfocus com
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Iyw8Z+4tz9Gz0MfYdhwUn6f+bKMrYKSIM8d0EHFDTEia9ajRv4z6sOGQ+bPEvxYh+rMjz/yTyMdnglC+0gZpBd1AVWvT9VRJjP/fkDSUQWsKsRAnmhzap1Hosk5gsoJb5nF1nn9KHOiWdKzjqsdv19kN9vUdAX3kXXRaxUo7bEw= References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608061841520.30026 () shalla de> <200608070759.k777xBSc004790 () dbmail-mx1 orcon net nz> Return-Path: pen-test-return-1078482033-crux80=hotmail.com () securityfocus com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Aug 2006 19:04:06.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[419BDA30:01C6BA54]

I would add in to the VA section, verifying the results, testing for
false positives.
The scanners are great, but not always 100% correct.

To give an example, Once I had a nessus scan tell me a DB was not password
protected, just the sa user no pass. That was a false positive. Why it
did that I dont know, but thats how it was.

my 2 cents.

On 8/7/06, Richard Feist <richard () bluesec net> wrote:

H'mmm... I've formed my own view over the years...and before I get flamed
this is a gross generalisation:

Security Scan ... Run nessus / nmap / internet scanner / retina and produce
report.

Vulnerability Assessment ... Run nessus / nmap / internet scanner / retina , add a bit of test around a few of the vulnerabilities to beef up report and
produce report.

Security Audit ... Examine the process and configuration and ensure
compliance with documented process / configuration. Incl. Standards, etc
where documented ie 17799. Ignore how it can be abused.

Penetration Test ... Do a partial VA (generally external, not internal) as
prep and then exploit a couple of the vulnerabilites found to prove,
sometimes with a token 'we got this'

Security Assessment ... Comprehensive end to end test encompassing physical
through to human (OSI layer 1 to 7 plus human 8 )

From these what we generally are missing is that these need to be done with
a good understanding of the business and its operational requirements,
generally this is missed and the results are largely un-aligned with the
business, risk management and governance. As an industry this is what we
need to improve.

We also have the problem of the testing being done at large intervals and
this tends to lend a false sense of security. With the way things are going
this is a waste of time/money for the organisation that would be better
spent in ensuring continuous validation of the environment. Ie
tracking/managing the operational security and dealing with weaknesses as
they occur. What we are seeing with SoX, etc is a pressure to get this to a
more 'real time' state.

Saying that I do believe that a 3rd party assessment is still required but
needs to be more aligned with the business , its risk management and
internal/continous testing and this is where the Enterprise Security
Architecture should come in.

When I get to the stage where the OSSTMM covers both internal and external
testing, a continuos cycle plus relevant metrics ...i'll be happy I've a got
a "Security Assessment" that has long term worth for the business spending
money.

Just an opinion :-)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christine Kronberg [mailto:seeker () shalla de]
> Sent: 07 August 2006 04:54
> To: Arkem Paul
> Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com
> Subject: Re: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
>
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Arkem Paul wrote:
>
> >
> > A Vulnerability Assessment should be a comprehensive look
> from policy
> > and procedures to implementation of security in the network
> and should
> > include such things as patch management, virus protection, user
> > education, SOE hardening, infrastructure configuration, etc.
>
>    So basicly an assessment is equal to an audit? The
> description above
>    is what I usually expect from someone doing an audit.
>    A vulnerability assessment I tend to understand in terms
> of investigating
>    a specific application (in far more detail than a
> penetration test).
>
>    There are a couple of term mixed every now and again (like someone
>    else just stated: funny that we professionals don't come
> up with _one_
>    definition):
>
>    Audit
>    Security Scan
>    Security Assessment
>    Vulnerability Assessment
>    Penetration Test
>
>    Did I miss one?
>
>    Cheers,
>
>    Christine Kronberg.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> This List Sponsored by: Cenzic
>
> Concerned about Web Application Security?
> Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win
> the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web
> applications continue to rise, you need to proactively
> protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most
> comprehensive solutions to meet your application security
> penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You
> have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic
> ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm).
> Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help
> you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php
> And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to
> confirm your results from other product. Contact us at
> request () cenzic com for details.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release
> Date: 05/08/2006
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This List Sponsored by: Cenzic

Concerned about Web Application Security?
Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the
most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration
testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a
managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software
(Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can
help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php
And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your
results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This List Sponsored by: Cenzic

Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This List Sponsored by: Cenzic

Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  By Date           By Thread  

Current thread:
[ Nmap | Sec Tools | Mailing Lists | Site News | About/Contact | Advertising | Privacy ]
AlienVault