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Re: What is being a pen tester really like?
From: "Diarmaid McManus" <diarmaidmcmanus () gmail com>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:31:00 +0100

Actually kluge, i think you'll find that that would be 'Its not
nuclear weapons testing if there are no nuclear weapons', which, you
will find, is actually not nuclear weapons testing.

Penetration testing, by defenition, (and to keep many happy ill throw
in IMO here) requires penetration of the systems you are testing, or
at least proof that you _can_ penetrate them if you so wish.

Yours,
~Diarmaid.

On 06/08/06, kluge () kluge org <kluge () kluge org> wrote:

If "It is not pen-testing if there is no penetration." were true, then
we'd drop the "-testing" and just call it "Penetration."  That'd be like
saying, "It's not nuclear weapons testing if there is no big explosion."

-kluge



On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, William Woodhams wrote:

> I could have not said it any better.
>
> Bill Woodhams
> Systems Technician
> Development Group-Technical Systems
> Wegmans Food Markets
> Direct:(585) 429-3183
> William.Woodhams () wegmans com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arian J. Evans [mailto:arian.evans () anachronic com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 3:58 PM
> To: pen-test () securityfocus com
> Subject: RE: What is being a pen tester really like?
>
> Was this post a successful troll, or is the level of
> technical competence in the pen-testing space so
> commoditized that "nor does it require deep technical
> skill" == 2006 pen testing?
>
> Wow.
>
> I struggle regularly to explain the difference between
> a "vulnerability assessment" and a pen test, due to the
> fact that too many folks pimp pen test offerings that
> are just automated VA with a personal touch, like Paul
> described. That, however, is the problem, not the answer.
>
> It is not pen-testing if there is no penetration.
>
> </charlatan>
>
> Forgive me, mom, for that sentence,
>
> -ae
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Melson [mailto:pmelson () gmail com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:28 PM
>> To: rahul.joshi2 () googlemail com
>> Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com
>> Subject: RE: What is being a pen tester really like?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Subject: What is being a pen tester really like?
>>
>> rahul.joshi2 () googlemail com wrote:
>>>
>>> I am currently a Java developer but I'm seriously thinking
>> of changing
>> paths to
>>> a career in security and pen testing.
>>>
>>> What I would like to know is what is being a pen tester really like?
>>
>> Despite what you may have heard, being a successful
>> pen-tester (meaning, you
>> get hired and make a living at it) is not very hard, nor does
>> it require a
>> lot of very deep technical skill.  What it really requires is
>> good verbal
>> and written communication skills, the ability to work well
>> with clients, and
>> the ability to explain security (even inaccurately) in terms
>> of business
>> value.  Do those things, and you can be successful.
>>
>> The dirty truth about pen testers is that most of them have a
>> handful of
>> tools and scripts (like Nessus and Retina) and run them with the same
>> configs against every customer and have the same canned
>> recommendations
>> based on the results that their tools spit out.  Hell, most
>> vuln scanners
>> spit out their own remediation recommendations for the pen
>> tester to simply
>> hand over to their customers.  Additionally, for a pen test
>> to have the
>> appearance of being successful, it only needs to find some of the
>> vulnerabilities present on a network or in an application.
>> Unlike being a
>> network engineer or an sysadmin where your work has to stand
>> up to the 24/7
>> scrutiny of a live environment, being a pen tester means only
>> needing to be
>> right more often than you're wrong.
>>
>> Not to take away from the skills or experience of any
>> individual pen testers
>> out there.  There are some Mario Andretti's out there driving
>> school busses,
>> if I may.
>>
>>
>> PaulM
>>
>>
>>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This List Sponsored by: Cenzic

Concerned about Web Application Security?
Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's
Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise,
you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the
most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration
testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a
managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software
(Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can
help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php
And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your
results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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This List Sponsored by: Cenzic

Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details.
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