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Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE)
From: Wolf <wolfiroc () earthlink net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:28:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

Hi David and Pete,
I really take the statement "... mastery of all aspects of security" as a bit of a challenge as well as an insult to 
those who truly have mastered their craft, but do not have the CISSP.  I do - as well as OPST, OPSA, IEM and IAM.  Fact 
-not boasting or professing mastery.  Too much comes down the road each day to profess mastery at all aspects of 
security.  If there were so many masters out there, then we wouldn't have configuration management issues, patch 
management and implementation issues, and every system and network could be certified and accredited as being 
operationally secure.  
I know for a FACT that  some CISSPs have little or no experience or understanding in the field, yet managed to take a 
damn good test!  If the prereqs were checked or truly told, they never would have been eligible.
Not a rant just something to think about the next time you claim mastery!

-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Herzog <lists () isecom org>
Sent: Jul 30, 2006 5:39 AM
To: David Cross <davidcross () Post-N-Track com>
Cc: "Robert E. Lee" <robert () dyadsecurity com>, pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE)

Hi David,

The CISSP credential is not a networking credential.  It is a general
security credential showing mastery of all aspects of security, not an
in-depth knowledge of one.  A CISSP would be expected to serve in an

I think "mastery" includes capability and not just knowledge thereof.  To 
master something means to be at the top of a craft.  It means to know 
something deeply and to be able to apply that knowledge broadly.  I 
disagree that a CISSP shows a mastery of all things security.

advisory or audit capacity and not in a network engineer capacity.  The

Just broad knowledge of security best practices to apply broadly where one 
sees them is unhealthy to any organization.

If a CISSP with no experience is applying for a networking job then
shame on them.  If you hire a CISSP for a networking job when they have
no specific networking experience then shame on you.

And yet they do all the time.  Many of us know many CISSPs who didn't have 
the experience, were able to fudge it, and were able to get their 
certification without having any problem finding another CISSP vouch for 
them. Talking a solution does not show successful implementation of one.

Credentials can only be looked at to strengthen the credibility of a
person's resume, not to create credibility where this is no experience.

Not true. Certification can provide those lacking experience to show 
ability and be an asset to an organization in that particular field. So it 
can show credibility where no experience exists. People already do this now 
looking to switch job descriptions, need to learn a specific aspect of a 
job, seek to enhance current ability, or to improve their marketability for 
new jobs.

Either way if you are going to criticize things in public you should
know what you are talking about or you will just point out to everyone
that you don't know the industry as well as you think.

I agree with that statement however I also think putting on rose-colored 
glasses does not make the current industry on-goings any rosier for other 
people who end up being the victims instead of the benefactors of security.

-pete.

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