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Re: Pentester convicted..
From: "Art Cooper" <acooper () pop innerwall com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 12:07:52 -0600

Well Karyn,

 As one who has been in IT for 28 years (Including Intel and IT for the US 
Air Force), and as one who also is published on the matter and has spent the 
last 10 years dedicating myself to Information Security, AND as on who has 
taught at two institutes of so-called "Higher Learning" part-time for many 
years, I will tell you that I say those things BECAUSE a University is 
involved.  If you want to see politics, hysteria, and childish behavior on 
EVERY level, go teach.  I have taught BS and MS level students, and the BS in 
College IT departments is unsurpassed!

The fact this gentleman had "SOME" sort of realtionship with the University 
tells me there was an axe to grind by one side or the other.  The University 
has more cloat and money, therefore they succeed and this gentleman "Sucks-

I have also personally testified at sveral court proceedings concerning these 
very activities, and I can tell you that in 99% of the cases I was involved 
in, there was a "Witch Hunt" and a LOT more involved then we are getting from 
this article.  Did he do wrong? YES - no doubt, but I feel the response you 
have made as to DAMAGE is inflated.  Are you a lawyer? You sure sound like 


Arthur B. Cooper Jr. "Coop"
Senior Network Engineer
Innerwall, Inc.
acooper () innerwall com

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation
 and go to the grave with the song still in them."
* Henry David Thoreau *

On On Fri, 12 May 2006 13:55:03 -0400, Karyn Pichnarczyk wrote
Let me list some actual damage.  The company now knows that someone
who was not authorized, and did not have the best interests of the
company in mind (or else they would have contacted the company with
their findings, not the company's customers or journalists) had 
access to basically Anything and Everything in their computer systems.

Therefore, the Actual Damage is the re-evaluation of all systems, and
verification of all data on those compromised systems, to ensure that
the company's data has not been twiddled with/changed/modified.

What assurance does the company have that this criminal (and yes,
it it criminal to break into a system without authorization) didn't
fiddle with the data, perhaps even putting in code that will either
cause the company to automatically send out payments to someone who
doesn't deserve them, or erase records of expected payments, etc.?
What if the criminal set up something on these computers to make it
appear as if the company itself was performing a criminal activity,
that will later cause the leaders of the company to be arrested?

A defense of "I didn't do anything" does not lead much credence to
a criminal's testimony.

It costs lots of money to pay employees (and likely expert 
consultants as well) for their time to clean up and verify the 
systems.  And what if they aren't as diligent as the original 
criminal thinks they should be?  If something was planted by the 
criminal, this Criminal can now come back and once again report to 
the media and the company's customers that the cleanup was not done 
properly.  Thus the company has to spend more money being diligent 
in their response.

Money is Actual Damage, Mr. Cooper.

Art Cooper wrote:

Because I BELIEVE there is a "LOT" more here than meets the eye..  I 
if he took the evidence to the Univ. and they ignore him.. If so, then 
perhaps he had an axe to grind.. My point is this - what ACTUAL DAMAGE 
caused?  Most lawyers will tell you that you MUST prove there was malice 

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