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RE: rules of engagement scope
From: "StyleWar" <stylewar () cox net>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 20:34:20 -0500

Realizing it's just an opinion you've offered, you need to 
normalize that opinion with reality. The scope limits on
pen tests have their origin in the Availability 'head' of the 
CIA triumvirate, and the liabilities associated when the
tested object is connected to systems over which the contracted
party has no direct responsibility (for example).

It ain't fraud... it's just common sense. 

-----Original Message-----
From: mr.nasty () ix netcom com [mailto:mr.nasty () ix netcom com] 
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:33 PM
To: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: rules of engagement scope

Rules of Engagement Scope is as absurd as legally shredding 
audit papers.  Let me give you an example.  Pen-Tests are 
usually performed after a vulnerability test, which is done 
to support a financial audit, which is used to provide 
shareholders definite information regarding the stability of 
an organization.  If an organization requires a limited scope 
pen-test without disclosure wouldn't this constitute as a 
lie? Think about this just for a second. If you sign a 
Government form and there are mistakes on the form then you 
can be charged with FRAUD.  So if an organization establishes 
'ROE' that sets a limited scope on the pen-test without 
public disclosure, why is that different than FRAUD?  
National Security?  MHO is that pen-tests are as important as 
the certified financial statements used by organizations and 
should have public disclaimers of ROE.  When an organization 
is audited with certain constraints that information is or 
should be disclosed within those statements.  Information 
that is not disclosed regarding these limitations to me is 
considered FRAUD!  But then, that's just my opinion I could 
be monitored, jailed, fined and detained.

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