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Re: rules of engagement scope
From: Sol Invictus <sol () haveyoubeentested org>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:45:10 -0400

Most people don't realize that you can still have a black box test and set a specific scope.

Simply have your Account Rep specify the scope and then the tester gets no information. Only when information is found, the tester checks with the Account Rep to see if he can proceed a certain way or not. Obviously this means your Account Reps need to be very knowledgeable in setting up these tests.

Sol.

Ivan Arce wrote:

Frankly I don't see what kind of logical reasoning leads from
defining the scope for a penetration test ex-ante to committing fraud,
maybe I need some rest to ponder about these things more seriously.

Disregarding what is exactly disclosed after a penetration test (and to
whom), which is what you are driving towards the fraud conclusion,
a precise definition of scope *before* engaging in a penetration test aims at:
- providing good data for precise estimation of cost, time, effort
- providing a good indication of desired focus
- providing a good indication of desired depth
- providing a good indication of undesired breadth

All of the above are NOT independent variables that can be considered
separately. Finding the optimal mix for a given organization and the best
suited team for that mix is the key to differentiate a good penetration test
from a lousy one.

-ivan

mr.nasty () ix netcom com wrote:
Rules of Engagement Scope is as absurd as legally shredding audit papers.


Let me give you an example.

Pen-Tests are usually performed after a vulnerability test, which is done
to support a financial audit, which is used to provide shareholders
definite information regarding the stability of an organization.

If an organization requires a limited scope pen-test without disclosure
wouldn't this constitute as a lie? Think about this just for a second. If
you sign a Government form and there are mistakes on the form then you
can be charged with FRAUD.

So if an organization establishes 'ROE' that sets a limited scope on the
pen-test without public disclosure, why is that different than FRAUD?

National Security?

MHO is that pen-tests are as important as the certified financial
statements used by organizations and should have public disclaimers of
ROE.  When an organization is audited with certain constraints that
information is or should be disclosed within those statements.

Information that is not disclosed regarding these limitations to me is
considered FRAUD!

But then, that's just my opinion I could be monitored, jailed, fined and
detained.

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