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RE: CISSP-ISSMP
From: "Levenglick, Jeff" <JLevenglick () fhlbatl com>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 15:51:33 -0400

Annnie,

1) As you pointed out. Your peers have jobs and are doing the same work,
just without certs. Ie: they did not need a cert to get the same job you
have.

2) CCNA,CNE...ect all popular at one time. Worthless now. My point..
Someone made money off the test. In Nathaniel's case, his company is
taking advantage
of the cert craze and charging more. Does it mean the tech showing up is
worth more or had the time to study a self help book?

Btw.. I do not hate all of the fly-by-night certs. I still happen to
think the only real cert out there is from Cisco. CCIE is not something
that
You can just pick up a book and take the test. (part one anyway.. Part
two is hands on)

-----Original Message-----
From: Angelacci, Anna M CTR SPAWAR, J616
[mailto:anna.angelacci () navy mil] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 08:22 AM
To: Nathaniel Hirsch; Mohamed Abdel Kader
Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: CISSP-ISSMP

I disagree Nathaniel. I work with peers that do not have the CISSP. They
do know how to fill out templates required for submission of an SSAA,
but they have no clue about application of security controls and
attributes. They can't even complete a proper sentence if were not for a
spelling and grammar checker. They can run the scanners, mitigate the
risks based on the STIG references, but still have no clue what they are
doing. 

I lucked out by getting an NSA test bank for the CISSP. If I did not
have 7 years experience plus, in scanning networks, I would have failed.
I also must admit, I am an MCT, CCNA, CNE, Dell Certified Server Tech, a
3COM Certified Fiber Installer, have over 238 college credits, and have
worked for 27 years in the field. The CISSP does only test you on
security attributes if that is the test bank you were lucky enough to
draw. The test banks are designed to test you on application of the
attributes, not application of the DITSCAP. The point to remember in all
this is," Not one single person knows it all!" Working as a team and not
bashing your peers is a formula for success, not just certs.
Annie

-----Original Message-----
From: nat () morgothan com [mailto:nat () morgothan com] On Behalf Of
Nathaniel Hirsch
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:19 PM
To: Mohamed Abdel Kader
Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: CISSP-ISSMP


I recently got my CISSP.  The company that I work for paid for me to go
to a class, and take the test assuming I passed. If I failed then the
$500 would be on my nickle.  Thankfully I did not fail.  The main reason
they wanted me to get my CISSP is now they can charge more for the work
they contract me out to, this and you need it or some other equivalent
to do level 3 and 4 DITSCAP testing.  As for an ROI after I passed a got
a 15% raise which was nice, but I was also up for a raise, so I can not
tell you how much that was due to the CISSP, and how much was due to my
overall performance at the company.  Personally I feel that the exam and
certification process is a waste of time, and so does everyone else at
the company, but they are needed, or so they say.  However we have a guy
who works here who is a CISSP and a CEH(certified ethical hacker), and
to be truthful, he is quite possible the most worthless tester I have
ever had to work with, and everyone else in the office knows this.  So
having the cert doesn't make you good, and doesn't prove to anyone that
you have experience or skill.  It just proves that you can pick the
correct answer out of a four possible answer on a 250 question multiple
choice exam. As for giving an out of 10 scale for everything you
mentioned I guess they would all be 5s because it all really depends on
a lot of other things.  As for what job its good for, I would have to
say more managerial then anything else.  The topics covered are really
only puddle deep, not enough to know whats going on, just enough to know
that it is going on though.


Nathaniel Hirsch, CISSP
Xacta Corporation
656 Shrewsbury Ave.
Shrewsbury, NJ 07702

On 5/8/06, Mohamed Abdel Kader <makster12 () hotmail com> wrote:
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone out there did the CISSP-ISSMP concentration.

I want to know the value added in the areas listed below, in an out of

10 scale for example:

    Total ROI
    Career Advancement
    Industry Demand
    Raise Potential

    Suitable for what job/position (not an out of 10 answer of course
:))

I also want to know the material to study from.

Thanks a million.
MAK

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