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RE: The legal / illegal line?
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:40:01 +1100

A contract can be verbal. All that is required for a contract is offer, acceptance and consideration. This said there 
is the issue of evidence.

Martin is correct when he states " Never _ever_ engage in anything without a signed "get of of jail letter"." You may 
have a contract with a verbal agreement, but you try and prove it in court.

Worse, an email (though taken as a written agreement) does not give you the ability to presume authority. The system 
admin may not have the rights to have you do the test. At least with a Deed (a signed, sealed and delivered contract 
for ease of explanation), you have something to fall on and cover your arse. If the other party had falsely attested 
that they could authorise you to do the scan, you have a piece of paper supporting this and you can make your own life 
much easier in the long run.


-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Martin Zimmermann
Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2007 8:53 AM
To: Dotzero
Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: The legal / illegal line?

Never _ever_ engage in anything without a signed "get of of jail letter"
+ an quite specific agreement stating what you are authorized to do and
what the potentiel riscs are. Dotzero is very right in concluding that
they are _not_ in any way a client until a signed agreement exsists. I
can only imagine very few (and somewhat far fetched) situations where
you "discover" a vulnerability without "crossing the line", both in
relation to the law and morally. Besides no serious client would ever
hire a pen-test team that "pre-pens" them. It shows a complete lack of 
professionalism and often borders on black-mail in most situations of 
cases I've come across. And it qiute frankly sounds like you crossed the

Just my 1½ cent



Dotzero skrev:
The original question from Barry was about legal vs illegal. There is
only one (IMHO) answer to that question. It depends on jurisdiction.
The laws that apply in one jurisdiction may not apply in another.

I'm also concerned about Barry asking about when others "approach a
client" to tell them about their insecurities following a "simple
pen-test".. They are NOT your client unless they have engaged you.
They are a potential client. They have no relationship with you and
you have not been authorized by them to do anything on their behalf.
Even if you haven't done anything illegal, most companies I'm familiar
with would be unlikely to hire you or your company under such
circumstances. The actions you describe are indicative of a failure to
recognize appropriate boundaries.

A more reasonable approach (and one more likely to attract business)
would be to have your sales people pitch a free security assessment.
Have a standard agreement authorizing a standard but limited set of
activities that you can then use to show a potential client how they
might benefit from your services.

As usual, just my 2 cents.


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