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Re: Looking for help against Chinese Hacking Team
From: jc <antihacker.jc () gmail com>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:00:22 -0800

Do you know what is horrifying? In the short time I've followed this thread, not one of us so called "experts" advised the initial author to never, ever ever publicly post from
a work-email addy....

(if I'm mistaken in my assumption, I apologize...but if I'm not, well...)

Until the 100 advisory voices are in unison, malcontent individuals will always be able to derail the best of intent. Not one follow-up advisory post obscuficated the org. address, and now secondary relational 'events' might exacerbate the initial issue and morph it into something
exponentially worse, considerably beyond a $1k financial scope.

Way, way "Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians, Tonto...." (from the television/radio series "The Lone Ranger" -- as a courtesy to any international audience/readership)

Yes, Google is forever, but why make it a one-glance-driveby recon? If it was nestled deeper within the org. question, it wouldn't be screaming Issue & Vector!
(*bright lights*, hello k1dd135)

Come on folks, is common sense so uncommon?  Think!  Security 'Experts'
indeed...Group-Think like this is why we get our asses collectively 0wn3d, not
because of some cookie-cutter, technically-masturbatory solution.


(grouchy, old, curmudgeon, full of word-salad)

On Dec 15, 2008, at 12:34 PM, ArcSighter Elite wrote:

Hash: SHA1

Adriel T. Desautels wrote:
Hi there,
  The real problem here is that you don't know what you are doing
(yet). Let me pad that by saying that you're clearly not a security
expert and as such you shouldn't be expected to know how to solve this
problem.  The solution is simple though, especially if you're dealing
with SQL Injection. Before I give you the solution for free (which is
posted all over the web) I'll ramble on a bit.

  First, when you went through your "waves" of security experts, what
was your decision criteria? I'll admit that there are not very many real "experts" out there and that there are a lot of fraudulent ones. A real
expert would have provided you with a solution to your problem
immediately while some of the others (on this list too) have no clue
what they are doing.  Unfortunately, most of your Certified Ethical
Hackers also don't have a clue (certifications are political and not
always a real representation of talent).

  Why am I taking the time to write this? Well honestly I am sick and
tired of the bad name that these "Fake" security experts are giving to
real experts. They offer "penetration tests" that start a $500.00, or
Web Application Security Assessments that start at $700.00 when it is
IMPOSSIBLE to do either at those prices.

  The fact of the matter is that your average and real "security
expert" will have a man hour rate of about 190-350 an hour. The average "good" web application penetration test will take more than 10 hours to
do. That does not include time to write reports, to do research, to
analyze unique issues, or to do a lot of the other manually intensive
work that needs to be done to do the work properly.  Can that all be
done for $500.00? You do the math.... (the answer is no). Generally
speaking if you are asking for an application assessment you're going to
spend over $10,000.00. If you're not then you're getting ripped off.

  So anyway, the solution to your problem is as follows:

  1-) Your problem appears to be that you suffer from exploitable SQL
Injection Vulnerabilities.
2-) Your solution is to implement Parameterized Stored Procedures in
conjunction with strong            input and data validation.

  Check out http://www.owasp.org as a reference, or you can hire my
team to do a kick-ass job and get you locked down good and tight. You
most probably have may other risks that you are unaware of that can be
dealt with by the right team.  If you have any questions I'm a big
proponent of free advice.

From: XXXXXX <XXXX () xxx xxx> - (EDIT)(there, like this)
Date: December 12, 2008 19:59:19 EST
To: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Looking for help against Chinese Hacking Team

We've been battling the Chinese for several months now and have gone
several waves of US  security experts who have failed to stop them.
In their
defense, we are not on an unlimited budget and they've gotten us to a
where it looks as though somewhere among the site's 400 scripts is a SQL
injection vulnerability.

Automated testing by a few pen test products seems to think we're
fine. We
definitely are not.

Is it possible to hire a CEH to find the Chinese-discovered
for a few hundred dollars? (We aren't just being cheap, we've blown
our wad
on security that hasn't worked.) Would someone with intimate
knowledge of
the latest wave of Chinese attacks be required for this job? Besides our
first rate security team that's just been beat, I've tried the $200
pen test
folks and they have all failed. Microsoft security help has also failed.

Advice (Besides porting to Linux)? Help?
View this message in context:

Sent from the Penetration Testing mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Adriel T. Desautels
ad_lists () netragard com

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Alluding my previous message, he isn't a security expert, and maybe I
misunderstood about he wants to know HOW they're breaking in. Maybe I
was wrong. In the meantime, I totally agree with you that
non-knowledgeable security people are making bad fame to true experts.
But think about your post. Even stored procedures could be injected if
no proper validation is done, you know. Second, owasp will give him a
framework about pen-testing web applications, although is gives some
workarounds it's not designed to be some sort of secure coding guide.
Secondly, we got something wrong here. The pen-tester shouldn't fix the
application; developers must. And of course, input validation is the
issue, behind SQL injection, BoFs, remote includes; isn't new, don't you

This list is sponsored by: Cenzic

Security Trends Report from Cenzic
Stay Ahead of the Hacker Curve!
Get the latest Q2 2008 Trends Report now


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