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Re: My Frustrations
From: tony_l_turner () yahoo com
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:58:05 +0000

The difference being when they screw up they might lose their license and can't practice anymore. When we screw up we 
just have to find clients who haven't heard of us. Not sure if that argument is sufficient to justify licensing but 
figured I'd at least clarify the distinction. 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Shenk, Jerry A" <jshenk () decommunications com>

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:31:43 
To: pen-test list<pen-test () securityfocus com>
Subject: RE: My Frustrations


Is being licensed really all that different from certified?  I don't
know too many teachers but I know a couple really lousy ones and every
couple days, I hear some horrible story about a teacher who had sex with
a student or....  There are bad examples in the medical profession too
and they're all licensed.  And drivers...they all have licenses.  My
town requires plumbers and electricians to be licensed and they also
require that one of those guys who is playing the system review my work
if I want to do something myself.  I'll bet we can all come up with
electrical and plumbing stories.

No, I don't think licensure is the answer.  I think personal
responsibility both from the practitioner and the one needing the
service (or the checkbox;) is what's really needed.

-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On Behalf Of Sat Jagat Singh
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:54 PM
To: pen-test list
Subject: Re: My Frustrations

Having read your blog post, I would say that I share some of these
frustrations.  But many organizations are really only trying to cover
their asses and put a check in the box to say that, yes we got an
assessment done to satisfy the letter of the regulations.  These are
companies that are more concerned about the cost of the project than the
actual security.  While such people tend to get what they deserve, it
does create a negative reputation for the profession as a whole.

Yes, I do think it is a "profession", but we have not "professionalized"
ourselves by requiring licensing.  The industry reliance on
certification rather than licensing as a credential somewhat serves to
muddy the waters because the decision makers hiring security consultants
don't really know what a given certification covers.  We could debate
the value of different certifications until the cows come home but I
don't want to insult anyone and we can probably agree that too many of
them do not guarantee that the holder has real qualifications and the
security unsavy will never really know how to evaluate that.  More and
more I lean toward some form of professional licensure.  One of the
states will have to move in this direction before a serious debate about
it will be opened.  Until then, caveat emptor.


--- On Wed, 12/17/08, Adriel T. Desautels <ad_lists () netragard com>
wrote:

From: Adriel T. Desautels <ad_lists () netragard com>
Subject: My Frustrations
To: "pen-test list" <pen-test () securityfocus com>
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 11:19 AM
I recently wrote this blog entry and wanted to get some
comments from readers of this list. I'm frustrated with
the caliber of the people that are offering security
services and posing as experts, thats the subject of the
post. Please comment, insult, whatever... I'm
interested.

http://snosoft.blogspot.com/


Adriel T. Desautels
ad_lists () netragard com





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