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From: christopher.riley () r-it at
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:32:04 +0100

If you actually do real security, OSCP is a bullshit cert just like
CEH, CNOP, SCNA, GSE, et al.  Anything SANS or ISC2 is crap.  All of
these certs mean absolutely nothing if you dig deep into the actual
meaning behind them.

Just out of interest, have you actually done any of the training that you 
think is "crap". Having been through some of the training you mention 
(some of it good, some of it bad) I would disagree with your broad 
assumption. Have you ever actually met somebody with a GSE for example. 
It's not an easy qualification to achieve. The courses you mentioned are 
designed to educate in a specific area and not be a wide ranging (but thin 
on information) course like the CISSP (and other) training appears to be. 

The question I have is what do you class as "real security". I work as a 
penetration tester and can say from my side that CEH is not a good course 
(in regards to preparing you for working in the ethical hacking field), 
however the SANS classes (SEC:560, SEC:504, SEC:709, SEC:542, etc...) do 
provide a great deal of information. No training course or certificate is 
going to guarantee a person is fit for the job, but dismissing them all as 
"crap" is in my opinion unfounded.

Just my 2 cents....

Chris John Riley

Raiffeisen Informatik GmbH, Firmenbuchnr. 88239p, Handelsgericht Wien, DVR 0486809, UID ATU 16351908

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