Penetration Testing: Re: Pentesting vs VA - was Pentesting tool - Commercial

[Trygve Aasheim <trygve () pogostick net>]

The first question should be if they can be compared.

We use these two different categories of tools for two different 
categories of projects.
As you say, the vulnerability tools are for identifying new 
vulnerabilities, retesting and store trend data.
The penetration testing tools and projects are aimed at finding what the 
consequences of a successful "pwn" in an area of our infrastructure 
would actually mean.
Does our security countermeasures detect the compromise? Is the attacker 
allowed to move through the infrastructure? What can be reached? Are 
there any configuration mistakes that opens up the infrastructure even 
more, when you're already in? Can the countermeasures be reconfigured to 
detect the attack at an earlier stage?
All the stuff that should have been taken care of, and you want to see 
if it works in real life.
T

Robert E. Lee wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 16:48 -0700, Andre Gironda wrote:
>   
> > Using exploits on production or IT networks is unethical.  This isn't
> > the wild west.  You're overpaying by about $19K-$26K for what you need
> > when you go with Core Impact.  I don't know about ya'll, but the idea
> > of propagating a pseudo-worm through a corporate network seems about
> > as good of an idea as asking the power company to shut off electricity
> > to a hospital for "just a minute, to see what will happen".
> >     
> When using exploits against production systems, in the best case
> scenario you've altered the running state of production software.  In
> the worst case, you've corrupted data or caused a loss of service.  Most
> of us have accepted these potential outcomes as normal during a manual
> penetration test.
>
> The concern companies should have with the exploit frameworks is that
> many of their users don't understand what the tool is doing.  The users
> also don't understand what the exploit is affecting.  These tools can be
> disastrous in the wrong hands.
>
> A better use of time for most companies would be to use a thorough
> vulnerability assessment and management solution.  VAM solutions can:
> * Identify new vulnerabilities - far more than an exploit framework
> * Assign vulnerability related tasks to the responsible Sys Admins
> * Allow for retesting of the device/vulnerability to ensure the it was 
>   properly mitigated
> * Show trending over time
>
> Our customers value their ability to actually improve their situation
> over their ability "Pwn" the systems they already own.
>
> Robert
>
>   
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